7 ms·

One group is physically imposing its ideology on another, and they are asking why we have a few examples of people acting out? I think a better question would h

One group is physically imposing its ideology on another, and they are asking why we have a few examples of people acting out? I think a better question would have been why have people taken it so well and not seen more pushback. Many jurisdictions in North America and elsewhere have essentially been living under occupation (sometimes by a majority) where people are being forcibly told how to live. There are literally 10s of millions of people that disagree with what they are being forced to do, but go along with it. We should all be impressed (or horrified, as I am) that all we saw in the way of pushback was a bit of rudeness.

Nouser76 5y ago
What's humorous to me about this is that both ideologies can probably make this claim. I know a lot of people who are pro-vaccine and mask mandates that are mad that this pandemic is still going on because of people believing misinformation and refusing to do their part. I know people who are anti-vaccine and anti-mask mandate who are mad that they are being "forced" to vaccinate (in effect, because of businesses adding requirements - the government itself is not forcing vaccination for the general public). Both would say the other side is causing their strife. Both are right, if you accept their axioms/premises (which I don't think is reasonable for both sides).
- bequanna 5y ago
  One side is doing whatever they can to force everyone to not only accept but live their views, impose their restrictions, and snatch up as much "emergency" power as legally possible. All because they see themselves as morally superior and more intelligent than the other side. They're the smarties "following the science". And so now we find ourselves at the unceremonious end of this pandemic. One day we woke up and restrictions are gone. Fear mongering by the media and our government is gone. COVID is old news. Kinda strange, huh? Regardless of which group an individual falls into, I believe all people intuitively know that this crisis was at best exaggerated and at worst manufactured, but absolutely exploited to the max. Now that the fear binge is over, we can see that arbitrary and ultimately unnecessary restrictions were imposed on us, how purchasing power has been eroded, countless choices and freedoms taken from them without any recourse. We should all be mad and unruly. Something is deeply broken and wrong which allowed power hungry individuals to POINTLESSLY disrupt so many lives for so long.
  - juanani 5y ago
    [dead]
  - peakaboo 5y ago
    I bet there is a new covid mutation before summer. Gotta keep everyone afraid so they comply.
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    > One day we woke up and restrictions are gone. Fear mongering by the media and our government is gone. COVID is old news. Kinda strange, huh? Maybe in your bubble. CDC guidance on masks and other preventative measures are data-driven, based on number of cases in the area, ICU utilization, and other metrics. You can see the guidance for your are here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/covid-by-county.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/covid-... Most places are low risk, meaning the guidance is to, "Wear a mask based on your personal preference, informed by your personal level of risk" > Fear mongering by the media and our government is gone. COVID-19 is still in the news. YouTube still has a section dedicated to it, it's still a "special coverage" section in Apple News and it's "front page" news on the New York Times. The President is still actively talking about COVID every day, and is pushing people to get their second boosters (that's fear mongering, right?). Granted, Fox News hasn't published a covid article in a while.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      Data driven, maybe. Myopic in focus? Absolutely. And it is that myopic obsession over Covid that took something bad and made it orders of magnitude worse.
      - mywittyname 5y ago
        > And it is that myopic obsession over Covid that took something bad and made it orders of magnitude worse. A good number of my family and friends are healthcare workers. You get any set of them into a room and all they do is talk about how many people are dead/dying because they didn't get a vaccine. So if by "myopic obsession" you mean, the myopic obsession with people not getting vaccinated because of some shortsighted views on relative risks you'd be right. ICUs were full of unvaccinated people who got covid, not vaccinated people who didn't.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
throwawaygh 5y ago
The article mentions nurses in Missouri, a region where I have some first-hand knowledge. Rural Missouri was locked down for... maybe a month? I guess more like 3 weeks. And nothing like the NYC or SF lockdowns, mind you. Masking was always optional, even when it was mandatory, and most people didn't. In many parts of Missouri, pandemic restrictions amounted to not much more than a couple months of remote learning and have been over close to 2 years at this point. I think we were even doing in person summer school in 2020. But you still see the same level of rage. IMO a lot of it is intentionally manufactured. People really believe they're being forced to mask and get vaccinated even though they haven't been doing either since May 2020. It's utterly bizarre. The stimulus checks mostly just feeding increased alcohol consumption didn't help, especially in a region where endemic and generational substance abuse problems are probably the strongest headwind.
- bequanna 5y ago
  I don't at all buy that the rage is "intentionally manufactured". I also live in a rural area. The majority of the people here are conservative, see themselves as individual family units first and members of a community second. They understand how to operate mostly autonomously and have no need to hide in a crowd for comfort. I understand that many people need the security of a strong authority when they are scared. But please understand that not all of us need some sacred decree from the State Capitol telling us when we can visit our grandparents or which direction we should walk down the aisle in the grocery store and strongly resent that anyone thinks they have the authority to do so. Of course, these people instinctively "rage" against anything that encroaches on their rights as individuals and they should. And now that is clear those decisions were mostly arbitrary and the people making them so obviously doing so because "woke" or just to consolidate power, I think they have a right to be angry. The backlash should be interpreted as a warning that the populace was pushed too far. Too much power was seized using fear and people noticed.
  - jghn 5y ago
    > which direction we should walk down the aisle in the grocery store I could be wrong, but wasn't this the stores setting those rules and not the central government? And if I did manage to be correct there, that'd be capitalism at work. Customers could choose to do business with companies setting those rules. And if enough people voted with their wallets, stores wouldn't have those rules. The people I see "raging" about these things are the same ones I see promoting free markets and things like that. If I was incorrect, well, ignore me.
ecf 5y ago
> Many jurisdiction in North America and elsewhere have essentially been living under occupation Oh give me a break. Nobody is under occupation, there’s just a subset of the population who believe that they don’t owe anything to anyone under any circumstances and would rather watch people suffer rather than wear a piece of fabric because they’re mouth breathers with terrible fitness.
- rubyist5eva 5y ago
  Attitudes like this is part of the problem.
  - ecf 5y ago
    No what’s part of the problem are people claiming their lives are ruined by a mask. Extremely interesting to see how their talking points immediately were silenced when real hardship, like Ukrainians being invaded by Russia, started to hit the news cycle. Selfish, entitled, without a care for their community or fellow man. Oh and my comment was heavily upvoted before it was flagged, so keep reporting my stuff anti-vaxxers. You aren’t on the right side of history.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      > You aren’t on the right side of history. And I could say the exact same thing of you.
      - bediger4000 5y ago
        And you'd be wrong.
        spookthesunset 5y ago
        Not really. When the dust settles and we see the fallout caused myopic decision making by a small handful of "experts" it ain't gonna be pretty. The pandemic was real. People did die. But that doesn't mean any of what we did was right. I'd say we did virtually every single thing wrong. These "expert" scared the living daylights out of people instead of attempted to calm them. They downplayed any bit of good news (eg: the IFR for covid is way, way less than what the original models said). They promoted a culture of shaming and vitriol. They cheered on the absolute fuckage of our children by closing their schools for more than a year and then making them play safety theater when they returned. They intentionally stifled debates about what we were doing--god help anybody who questioned anything about what we've done. Oh yeah, and they mandated crap like masks. Which did nothing real and just divided people even more. 50 years from now we are gonna laugh at how stupid humans were for wearing masks in the olympics. Dudes just got done going down the hill on their snowboard in the freezing cold and then they have to wear some giant honking mask on their face--despite them being fully vaccinated and constantly tested. It's modern rain-dances.... The whole thing is pure insanity and history will not look at what we did with any kind of positive light.
kashunstva 5y ago
I live in North America and this is news to me. In recent years there are new requirements, surely. Mostly, but not entirely, they have a rational basis. Then again, I’m old and I’ve seen worse so maybe it’s a matter of perspective. But maybe I’m missing some larger and more specific point.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  For me it was a shock to see the power the state had or at least claimed to have over my life. The most egregious claim was that for a period of time it was illegal to voluntarily associate with others in their private residence for a completely consensual encounter. Most law enforcement agencies and many individuals ignored this policy, but the fact that the governor claimed the authority for such a restriction still infuriates me.
  - nbcesar 5y ago
    This statement is misleading at best. The closest we got were restrictions of 10+ people. Everyone in this country throughout the pandemic you could have associated with a smaller group in your private residence.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      The California shelter in place mandate on December 5th, 2020 [1] prohibited all recreational interactions with others outside your household. It applied to both indoor and outdoor gatherings of any number of people. It made it illegal to walk with a friend in a park, or visit a lover in their home. a. All gatherings with members of other households are prohibited in the Region except as expressly permitted herein. b. All individuals living in the Region shall stay home or at their place of residence except as necessary to conduct activities associated with the operation, maintenance, or usage of critical infrastructure, as required by law, or as specifically permitted in this order. h. Nothing in this Order prevents any number of persons from the same household from leaving their residence, lodging, or temporary accommodation, as long as they do not engage in any interaction with (or otherwise gather with) any number of persons from any other household, except as specifically permitted herein https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12.3.20-Stay-at-Home-Order-ICU-Scenario.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12.3.20-St...
russellbeattie 5y ago
- willcipriano 5y ago
  Imagine being so confident in your ideology that you must assume that anyone who disagrees is an agent of a foreign power, set to subvert your way of life. Nobody can look at the data and come to another conclusion. Impossible. Must be Russia, the CIA told me so.
  - russellbeattie 5y ago
    Talk about missing the point. Are you Russian or a stubborn fool? https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/ https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/
    - willcipriano 5y ago
      Are those the same people who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation?
somewhereoutth 5y ago
Ideology? There is no ideology behind trying to save lives and protect society. However, there is ideology in pretending that you don't live in a society, in thinking you can somehow do as you please. Not a pleasant ideology. Luckily, as you have pointed out, the most that these ideologues can muster is throwing their toys out of the pram when asked simple requests. (and posting absurd comments on social media if course).
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >Ideology? There is no ideology behind trying to save lives and protect society. Of course there is. Ideology: a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy. You just stated that we should try to save lives and protect society, and implicitly, that it is worth the cost is. The fact that you hold this view doesn't mean it isn't an ideology.
more_corn 5y ago
Disagree with things like wearing a mask so you don’t breathe plague on other people? There’s difference of opinion and there’s willfully ignorant stupidity. There was a plague in China at the border of Mongolia in the 1920s it was airborne and close to 100% lethal. Several doctors refused to mask. They contracted the disease and died. Since then it has been accepted by the medical community that masking prevents transmission of airborne disease. That’s why surgeons wear masks, to protect the patients. Pushback against medically and scientifically accepted measures to protect public health is idiocy. Next you’re going to argue that asking you to wash your hands after you shit is a violation of your rights.

Nouser76 5y ago

What's humorous to me about this is that both ideologies can probably make this claim. I know a lot of people who are pro-vaccine and mask mandates that are mad that this pandemic is still going on because of people believing misinformation and refusing to do their part. I know people who are anti-vaccine and anti-mask mandate who are mad that they are being "forced" to vaccinate (in effect, because of businesses adding requirements - the government itself is not forcing vaccination for the general public). Both would say the other side is causing their strife. Both are right, if you accept their axioms/premises (which I don't think is reasonable for both sides).

bequanna 5y ago
One side is doing whatever they can to force everyone to not only accept but live their views, impose their restrictions, and snatch up as much "emergency" power as legally possible. All because they see themselves as morally superior and more intelligent than the other side. They're the smarties "following the science". And so now we find ourselves at the unceremonious end of this pandemic. One day we woke up and restrictions are gone. Fear mongering by the media and our government is gone. COVID is old news. Kinda strange, huh? Regardless of which group an individual falls into, I believe all people intuitively know that this crisis was at best exaggerated and at worst manufactured, but absolutely exploited to the max. Now that the fear binge is over, we can see that arbitrary and ultimately unnecessary restrictions were imposed on us, how purchasing power has been eroded, countless choices and freedoms taken from them without any recourse. We should all be mad and unruly. Something is deeply broken and wrong which allowed power hungry individuals to POINTLESSLY disrupt so many lives for so long.
- juanani 5y ago
  [dead]
- peakaboo 5y ago
  I bet there is a new covid mutation before summer. Gotta keep everyone afraid so they comply.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  > One day we woke up and restrictions are gone. Fear mongering by the media and our government is gone. COVID is old news. Kinda strange, huh? Maybe in your bubble. CDC guidance on masks and other preventative measures are data-driven, based on number of cases in the area, ICU utilization, and other metrics. You can see the guidance for your are here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/covid-by-county.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/covid-... Most places are low risk, meaning the guidance is to, "Wear a mask based on your personal preference, informed by your personal level of risk" > Fear mongering by the media and our government is gone. COVID-19 is still in the news. YouTube still has a section dedicated to it, it's still a "special coverage" section in Apple News and it's "front page" news on the New York Times. The President is still actively talking about COVID every day, and is pushing people to get their second boosters (that's fear mongering, right?). Granted, Fox News hasn't published a covid article in a while.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    Data driven, maybe. Myopic in focus? Absolutely. And it is that myopic obsession over Covid that took something bad and made it orders of magnitude worse.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      > And it is that myopic obsession over Covid that took something bad and made it orders of magnitude worse. A good number of my family and friends are healthcare workers. You get any set of them into a room and all they do is talk about how many people are dead/dying because they didn't get a vaccine. So if by "myopic obsession" you mean, the myopic obsession with people not getting vaccinated because of some shortsighted views on relative risks you'd be right. ICUs were full of unvaccinated people who got covid, not vaccinated people who didn't.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

throwawaygh 5y ago

The article mentions nurses in Missouri, a region where I have some first-hand knowledge. Rural Missouri was locked down for... maybe a month? I guess more like 3 weeks. And nothing like the NYC or SF lockdowns, mind you. Masking was always optional, even when it was mandatory, and most people didn't. In many parts of Missouri, pandemic restrictions amounted to not much more than a couple months of remote learning and have been over close to 2 years at this point. I think we were even doing in person summer school in 2020. But you still see the same level of rage. IMO a lot of it is intentionally manufactured. People really believe they're being forced to mask and get vaccinated even though they haven't been doing either since May 2020. It's utterly bizarre. The stimulus checks mostly just feeding increased alcohol consumption didn't help, especially in a region where endemic and generational substance abuse problems are probably the strongest headwind.

bequanna 5y ago
I don't at all buy that the rage is "intentionally manufactured". I also live in a rural area. The majority of the people here are conservative, see themselves as individual family units first and members of a community second. They understand how to operate mostly autonomously and have no need to hide in a crowd for comfort. I understand that many people need the security of a strong authority when they are scared. But please understand that not all of us need some sacred decree from the State Capitol telling us when we can visit our grandparents or which direction we should walk down the aisle in the grocery store and strongly resent that anyone thinks they have the authority to do so. Of course, these people instinctively "rage" against anything that encroaches on their rights as individuals and they should. And now that is clear those decisions were mostly arbitrary and the people making them so obviously doing so because "woke" or just to consolidate power, I think they have a right to be angry. The backlash should be interpreted as a warning that the populace was pushed too far. Too much power was seized using fear and people noticed.
- jghn 5y ago
  > which direction we should walk down the aisle in the grocery store I could be wrong, but wasn't this the stores setting those rules and not the central government? And if I did manage to be correct there, that'd be capitalism at work. Customers could choose to do business with companies setting those rules. And if enough people voted with their wallets, stores wouldn't have those rules. The people I see "raging" about these things are the same ones I see promoting free markets and things like that. If I was incorrect, well, ignore me.

ecf 5y ago

> Many jurisdiction in North America and elsewhere have essentially been living under occupation Oh give me a break. Nobody is under occupation, there’s just a subset of the population who believe that they don’t owe anything to anyone under any circumstances and would rather watch people suffer rather than wear a piece of fabric because they’re mouth breathers with terrible fitness.

rubyist5eva 5y ago
Attitudes like this is part of the problem.
- ecf 5y ago
  No what’s part of the problem are people claiming their lives are ruined by a mask. Extremely interesting to see how their talking points immediately were silenced when real hardship, like Ukrainians being invaded by Russia, started to hit the news cycle. Selfish, entitled, without a care for their community or fellow man. Oh and my comment was heavily upvoted before it was flagged, so keep reporting my stuff anti-vaxxers. You aren’t on the right side of history.
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    > You aren’t on the right side of history. And I could say the exact same thing of you.
    - bediger4000 5y ago
      And you'd be wrong.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        Not really. When the dust settles and we see the fallout caused myopic decision making by a small handful of "experts" it ain't gonna be pretty. The pandemic was real. People did die. But that doesn't mean any of what we did was right. I'd say we did virtually every single thing wrong. These "expert" scared the living daylights out of people instead of attempted to calm them. They downplayed any bit of good news (eg: the IFR for covid is way, way less than what the original models said). They promoted a culture of shaming and vitriol. They cheered on the absolute fuckage of our children by closing their schools for more than a year and then making them play safety theater when they returned. They intentionally stifled debates about what we were doing--god help anybody who questioned anything about what we've done. Oh yeah, and they mandated crap like masks. Which did nothing real and just divided people even more. 50 years from now we are gonna laugh at how stupid humans were for wearing masks in the olympics. Dudes just got done going down the hill on their snowboard in the freezing cold and then they have to wear some giant honking mask on their face--despite them being fully vaccinated and constantly tested. It's modern rain-dances.... The whole thing is pure insanity and history will not look at what we did with any kind of positive light.

kashunstva 5y ago

I live in North America and this is news to me. In recent years there are new requirements, surely. Mostly, but not entirely, they have a rational basis. Then again, I’m old and I’ve seen worse so maybe it’s a matter of perspective. But maybe I’m missing some larger and more specific point.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
For me it was a shock to see the power the state had or at least claimed to have over my life. The most egregious claim was that for a period of time it was illegal to voluntarily associate with others in their private residence for a completely consensual encounter. Most law enforcement agencies and many individuals ignored this policy, but the fact that the governor claimed the authority for such a restriction still infuriates me.
- nbcesar 5y ago
  This statement is misleading at best. The closest we got were restrictions of 10+ people. Everyone in this country throughout the pandemic you could have associated with a smaller group in your private residence.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    The California shelter in place mandate on December 5th, 2020 [1] prohibited all recreational interactions with others outside your household. It applied to both indoor and outdoor gatherings of any number of people. It made it illegal to walk with a friend in a park, or visit a lover in their home. a. All gatherings with members of other households are prohibited in the Region except as expressly permitted herein. b. All individuals living in the Region shall stay home or at their place of residence except as necessary to conduct activities associated with the operation, maintenance, or usage of critical infrastructure, as required by law, or as specifically permitted in this order. h. Nothing in this Order prevents any number of persons from the same household from leaving their residence, lodging, or temporary accommodation, as long as they do not engage in any interaction with (or otherwise gather with) any number of persons from any other household, except as specifically permitted herein https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12.3.20-Stay-at-Home-Order-ICU-Scenario.pdf https://www.gov.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/12.3.20-St...

russellbeattie 5y ago

willcipriano 5y ago
Imagine being so confident in your ideology that you must assume that anyone who disagrees is an agent of a foreign power, set to subvert your way of life. Nobody can look at the data and come to another conclusion. Impossible. Must be Russia, the CIA told me so.
- russellbeattie 5y ago
  Talk about missing the point. Are you Russian or a stubborn fool? https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/ https://intelligence.house.gov/social-media-content/
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    Are those the same people who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation?

somewhereoutth 5y ago

Ideology? There is no ideology behind trying to save lives and protect society. However, there is ideology in pretending that you don't live in a society, in thinking you can somehow do as you please. Not a pleasant ideology. Luckily, as you have pointed out, the most that these ideologues can muster is throwing their toys out of the pram when asked simple requests. (and posting absurd comments on social media if course).

s1artibartfast 5y ago
>Ideology? There is no ideology behind trying to save lives and protect society. Of course there is. Ideology: a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy. You just stated that we should try to save lives and protect society, and implicitly, that it is worth the cost is. The fact that you hold this view doesn't mean it isn't an ideology.

more_corn 5y ago

Disagree with things like wearing a mask so you don’t breathe plague on other people? There’s difference of opinion and there’s willfully ignorant stupidity. There was a plague in China at the border of Mongolia in the 1920s it was airborne and close to 100% lethal. Several doctors refused to mask. They contracted the disease and died. Since then it has been accepted by the medical community that masking prevents transmission of airborne disease. That’s why surgeons wear masks, to protect the patients. Pushback against medically and scientifically accepted measures to protect public health is idiocy. Next you’re going to argue that asking you to wash your hands after you shit is a violation of your rights.