4 ms·

I agree - I think the other strength of it is that macros are less messy then a language with infix operators/functions. There is something nice about a langua

I agree - I think the other strength of it is that macros are less messy then a language with infix operators/functions. There is something nice about a language (lisp) that doesn't look like anything else, in an artistic sense (not sure if that counts for much). I think when most people complain about the parens, they are really complaining about the endless ))))))) at the end of an expression.

anamax 18y ago
Interlisp had the last part correct. [ was a special open paren and ] closed all open parens back to (and including) the most recent [.
- michaelneale 18y ago
  Nice - I remember someone saying that that in emacs you could have it format it using indentation and now show the parens (or maybe it wasn't emacs).
  - silentbicycle 18y ago
    It was Emacs: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/UnParenMode http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/UnParenMode
dlweinreb 18y ago
In practice, it's just not a problem, because your interactive development environment takes care of it for you. I think the idea that anyone should be expected to program by using something with the power of Microsoft Notepad is an obsolete view. GNU Emacs with Lisp mode makes it very easy to work with the parentheses. Meanwhile, we have no "dangling else" problem. Also, we have no need to memorize C's 15 levels of operator precedence, so when you see an expression, you never have to puzzle over how the items are grouped. In simple cases of C expressions, of course, it's easy, but it can get complicated. See "Java Puzzlers" by Josh Bloch and Neal Gafter to see how C/Java-style syntax can get you into trouble and fool you. There are pros and cons to each approach (C/Java and Lisp). I've used all of them extensively, and I prefer the Lisp way.
- stefano 18y ago
  I agree that it's not a problem, but for newcomers all that parenthesis accumulation is quite problematic. I speak out of my personal experience: I've abandoned lisp even before learning something about macros because I couln't stand the parenthesis. I gave a second chance to Lisp some time ago, years after my first attempt. I've walked through Seibel's book entirely and know I love Lisp, but the parenthesis give a really bad first impression, they only make sense after you get to know the language better.

anamax 18y ago

Interlisp had the last part correct. [ was a special open paren and ] closed all open parens back to (and including) the most recent [.

michaelneale 18y ago
Nice - I remember someone saying that that in emacs you could have it format it using indentation and now show the parens (or maybe it wasn't emacs).
- silentbicycle 18y ago
  It was Emacs: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/UnParenMode http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/UnParenMode

dlweinreb 18y ago

In practice, it's just not a problem, because your interactive development environment takes care of it for you. I think the idea that anyone should be expected to program by using something with the power of Microsoft Notepad is an obsolete view. GNU Emacs with Lisp mode makes it very easy to work with the parentheses. Meanwhile, we have no "dangling else" problem. Also, we have no need to memorize C's 15 levels of operator precedence, so when you see an expression, you never have to puzzle over how the items are grouped. In simple cases of C expressions, of course, it's easy, but it can get complicated. See "Java Puzzlers" by Josh Bloch and Neal Gafter to see how C/Java-style syntax can get you into trouble and fool you. There are pros and cons to each approach (C/Java and Lisp). I've used all of them extensively, and I prefer the Lisp way.

stefano 18y ago
I agree that it's not a problem, but for newcomers all that parenthesis accumulation is quite problematic. I speak out of my personal experience: I've abandoned lisp even before learning something about macros because I couln't stand the parenthesis. I gave a second chance to Lisp some time ago, years after my first attempt. I've walked through Seibel's book entirely and know I love Lisp, but the parenthesis give a really bad first impression, they only make sense after you get to know the language better.