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In my lifetime, home computers have moved from being tinker-boxes that blink a few lights to consumer-ready products that non-hackers can use. Jobs helped that

In my lifetime, home computers have moved from being tinker-boxes that blink a few lights to consumer-ready products that non-hackers can use. Jobs helped that transition, much like Henry Ford helped the car make the same kind of transition. That wasn't a mistake either - read the chapters in folklore.org where he fought tooth and nail against having any expansion or ports in the original mac. The openness of the Apple II was mostly Woz.

BillPosters 15y ago
We all have different lifetimes I suppose. As a kid growing up, the Commodore 64 was more than a tinker-box that blinked a few lights. And later, the Amiga won hands down over the Mac that we had in the house. I was definitely no hacker. I was an average kid wanting to get enjoyment out of a computer. For me, the Commodore stepped up to offer what you describe as "consumer-ready". We bought and swapped heaps of software for C64 and Amiga over many years, as did millions around the world. We would play Summer Games as a family... mum, dad, sis.. we'd have a ball. Even at high school, the BBC was king in my day. When I got to Uni, I saw all these Macs everywhere, and apart from the crisper display suitable for word processing, they did not offer anything I would have called a step up my previous experience with computers. It was around then, that I discovered the 486 PC. I saved up and bought one. Never looked back. Just trying to balance the perspective here. Let's not get too carried away with the history of computers and what the Apple co-founder did for his company, ok?
- xsmasher 15y ago
  The post I replied to was lamenting that products from the "new Apple" weren't good hacker toy boxes like the Apple II. I'm pointing out that the shift was intentional. I don't think I exaggerated computer history either; Altair 8800 to iPhone is a big leap, and I'm not dead yet.
lukifer 15y ago
> products that non-hackers can use Agreed on all points, except for the definition of "use". Sure, my mom can now send emails, visit websites, even make her own newsletters with clip art, and that's mindblowingly fantastic. But she can't build a dynamic website herself, or add a new feature to an existing program she uses. (iWeb and Automator are a good start, but not good enough.) I'd like to think that someday, creating simple software will be something everyone will be able to do. Perhaps it's a situation similar to AI, where a generalized all-purpose solution is a pipe dream, but where narrow domain-specific solutions are more achievable; for example, platforms like ifttt.com or FormStack, which are highly usable to semi-techie prosumers. The future's still wide open, so we'll see what happens. :)
- xsmasher 15y ago
  I don't know if the demand is there. Most first-world citizens don't create their own literature, music, art or furniture, even though the tools are readily available. I doubt mom and pop will start programming, because I doubt they want to.
  - rimantas 15y ago
    Exactly. I don't get why some programmers want everybody to be programmers.

BillPosters 15y ago

We all have different lifetimes I suppose. As a kid growing up, the Commodore 64 was more than a tinker-box that blinked a few lights. And later, the Amiga won hands down over the Mac that we had in the house. I was definitely no hacker. I was an average kid wanting to get enjoyment out of a computer. For me, the Commodore stepped up to offer what you describe as "consumer-ready". We bought and swapped heaps of software for C64 and Amiga over many years, as did millions around the world. We would play Summer Games as a family... mum, dad, sis.. we'd have a ball. Even at high school, the BBC was king in my day. When I got to Uni, I saw all these Macs everywhere, and apart from the crisper display suitable for word processing, they did not offer anything I would have called a step up my previous experience with computers. It was around then, that I discovered the 486 PC. I saved up and bought one. Never looked back. Just trying to balance the perspective here. Let's not get too carried away with the history of computers and what the Apple co-founder did for his company, ok?

xsmasher 15y ago
The post I replied to was lamenting that products from the "new Apple" weren't good hacker toy boxes like the Apple II. I'm pointing out that the shift was intentional. I don't think I exaggerated computer history either; Altair 8800 to iPhone is a big leap, and I'm not dead yet.

lukifer 15y ago

> products that non-hackers can use Agreed on all points, except for the definition of "use". Sure, my mom can now send emails, visit websites, even make her own newsletters with clip art, and that's mindblowingly fantastic. But she can't build a dynamic website herself, or add a new feature to an existing program she uses. (iWeb and Automator are a good start, but not good enough.) I'd like to think that someday, creating simple software will be something everyone will be able to do. Perhaps it's a situation similar to AI, where a generalized all-purpose solution is a pipe dream, but where narrow domain-specific solutions are more achievable; for example, platforms like ifttt.com or FormStack, which are highly usable to semi-techie prosumers. The future's still wide open, so we'll see what happens. :)

xsmasher 15y ago
I don't know if the demand is there. Most first-world citizens don't create their own literature, music, art or furniture, even though the tools are readily available. I doubt mom and pop will start programming, because I doubt they want to.
- rimantas 15y ago
  Exactly. I don't get why some programmers want everybody to be programmers.