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This also suggests a need for app development companies to ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project. I realize this just sends m

by mikece 5y ago

This also suggests a need for app development companies to ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project. I realize this just sends more money in the direction of Google but if every app developer was set up with a G-Suite (or whatever it's called this week) account for developer access then there could be no question of actions a developer does on their own accounts coming back to bite the company. Likewise, there needs to be a mechanism for the company to mark a developer's account as "fired for cause" so that if they did anything toxic on the company-assigned account the company could pre-signal to Google that they are proactively taking care of things and following the rules.

Tijdreiziger 5y ago
Wouldn't Google associate personal and work accounts by IP address?
falcolas 5y ago
> ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project As I understand it, this may not be sufficient, since Google also looks at things like "logged in from the same browser" or "logged in via the same IP" to find associated accounts. > mark a developer's account as "fired for cause" Which, practically (and maybe legally) speaking is not something Google needs to know. Then again, in a world where Google can shut your company down arbitrarily, perhaps it is something Google needs to know...
- kuschku 5y ago
  So you need to have separate WiFi networks, separate corporate devices that are so locked down that developers can never use their personal accounts from your devices or your corporate IP range (and ensure the same applies in reverse). To absolutely prevent any and all association.
  - Gareth321 5y ago
    This sounds virtually unenforceable. Gated and protected phones and computers are the domain of highly secretive projects, and cost an arm and leg to enforce. It means searching personnel as they enter the protected zone for watches, phones, computers, tablets, etc. Since phones geolocate and Google has this data, the protected zone needs to be enormous. Like, an entire city block to prevent the algorithm from detecting the handover. If you somehow overcome this, you need to ensure that the employee never ever, for any reason ever logs into anything personal on the gated devices. It basically means preventing them from using the internet. How productive are developers who can't go online? It also means zero cross-communication to outside the zone. No emails to/from home/work. No sending files, no checking emails, no taking calls (someone could easily use a connected service to make the call). This "air" gap is extremely difficult to enforce. I've ever seen anyone successfully pull off this kind of secrecy in anything larger than a 10 person team, and the cost was insane.
    - TuringNYC 5y ago
      >> This sounds virtually unenforceable. The simple way to "enforce" it is to literally just use AWS/Azure instead. I agree with you, totally unenforceable.
  - freedomben 5y ago
    And it's the end of the era of a few friends building an app together and spinning it into a startup.
mijoharas 5y ago
So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read a similar HN article a while back, that said a users company and their personal google developer accounts got "associated" somehow (can't remember the specifics), so I'm not sure if that would be a mitigation for this issue. I do agree that it's a sensible thing to do and it _should_ be enough to mitigate issues like this.
deleted 5y ago
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by mikece 5y ago

Tijdreiziger 5y ago

Wouldn't Google associate personal and work accounts by IP address?

falcolas 5y ago

> ban developers from using personal accounts to associate with a project As I understand it, this may not be sufficient, since Google also looks at things like "logged in from the same browser" or "logged in via the same IP" to find associated accounts. > mark a developer's account as "fired for cause" Which, practically (and maybe legally) speaking is not something Google needs to know. Then again, in a world where Google can shut your company down arbitrarily, perhaps it is something Google needs to know...

kuschku 5y ago
So you need to have separate WiFi networks, separate corporate devices that are so locked down that developers can never use their personal accounts from your devices or your corporate IP range (and ensure the same applies in reverse). To absolutely prevent any and all association.
- Gareth321 5y ago
  This sounds virtually unenforceable. Gated and protected phones and computers are the domain of highly secretive projects, and cost an arm and leg to enforce. It means searching personnel as they enter the protected zone for watches, phones, computers, tablets, etc. Since phones geolocate and Google has this data, the protected zone needs to be enormous. Like, an entire city block to prevent the algorithm from detecting the handover. If you somehow overcome this, you need to ensure that the employee never ever, for any reason ever logs into anything personal on the gated devices. It basically means preventing them from using the internet. How productive are developers who can't go online? It also means zero cross-communication to outside the zone. No emails to/from home/work. No sending files, no checking emails, no taking calls (someone could easily use a connected service to make the call). This "air" gap is extremely difficult to enforce. I've ever seen anyone successfully pull off this kind of secrecy in anything larger than a 10 person team, and the cost was insane.
  - TuringNYC 5y ago
    >> This sounds virtually unenforceable. The simple way to "enforce" it is to literally just use AWS/Azure instead. I agree with you, totally unenforceable.
- freedomben 5y ago
  And it's the end of the era of a few friends building an app together and spinning it into a startup.

mijoharas 5y ago

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read a similar HN article a while back, that said a users company and their personal google developer accounts got "associated" somehow (can't remember the specifics), so I'm not sure if that would be a mitigation for this issue. I do agree that it's a sensible thing to do and it _should_ be enough to mitigate issues like this.

deleted 5y ago

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