4 ms·

It's interesting how the UI animations provided as juice by the game developer end up becoming anti-cheat devices. For those who haven't watched the vid, they d

It's interesting how the UI animations provided as juice by the game developer end up becoming anti-cheat devices. For those who haven't watched the vid, they discover video splices by observing a spinning animation (think circle loading animation) that plays during a full combo. If the animation jumps, there was a splice. All a developer has to do is randomize the starting position of the spinner during a full combo and it creates a non-deterministic signature for the run. Take note, game devs!

kibwen 5y ago
Indeed, I've long thought about the idea of persistent, nondeterministic UI overlays as an effective anti-cheat device. Stuff a widget in a corner of the screen and make it match the game's visual aesthetic and nobody would even mind (and make sure it persists from the moment the game boots, including during loading screens). Of course, this would require developers to care about stymying cheating speedrunners, which they certainly don't. :P
LocalH 5y ago
One of the ways he got caught was a fuckup on his part. He claimed a really high speed run of Through the Fire and Flames, and ended up taking the video down claiming copyright. This ended up being bunk, because someone saved the video while it was up and it turned out that he spliced in such a way as to "lose" something like 2,000 points mid-song. Guitar Hero has never had any mechanic to allow one to lose points they had already gained (unless it did in the earliest GH1 development days). The only thing even remotely close to that is the Big Rock Endings from the Rock Band series, where you have a series of freeform lanes to do whatever you want in order to build up a bonus, which is subsequently awarded to your actual score when you hit the final few gems after the BRE. But, those points aren't tallied to your total score until you actually hit the final gems. The score discrepancy in Schmooey's TTFAF video was a decrease in the actual score, as Clone Hero doesn't support Rock Band style BREs. It is literally impossible to have that happen legitimately, and that's why he took the video down, because it essentially was a key component of what busted him (and was also featured in the Jobst documentary).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dm319 5y ago
  A reminder of the cultural importance of youtube-dl.
dfxm12 5y ago
I think one thing to keep in mind is that cheaters in baseball, cycling, and even Donkey Kong brought more eyeballs to those games than anyone could have imagined. I'm sure a lot of people forgot GH existed before seeing this thread. I wonder how much devs should care about this in single player, score attack type games.
- Akinato 5y ago
  Did they? I’d argue that the next highest competitor that is competing legitimately would bring just as many eyeballs to the games. People are attracted by watching the best of the best compete — I don’t think the exact score is as important. Unless you’re talking scandals, and then I guess so? There’s temporarily more eyes on the drama but it quickly drops off.
  - dfxm12 5y ago
    They did. Feel free to make that argument. Just keep in mind, at one point, people thought Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were the best competitors competing legitimately, and people came to these sports in droves, so it's not an easy line in the sand to draw. Hell, can you even name the next highest competitor competing legitimately in the Tour de France 1999-2005? It's like those races never happened because so many people were cheating, but people were watching! Of course I'm not talking about scandals, because anyone who who has lived through this or even looked into this a little bit knows the scandals were devastating for the sports.
    - acjohnson55 5y ago
      Given the prevalence of cheating in cycling, it's still remarkable that Lance won as much as he did. I guess maybe Team USPS had a significantly better cheating regimen. Unlike Sosa/Maguire/Bonds, juiced performance isn't obvious to cycling casuals.
- sabas123 5y ago
  Scandals can also single handedly destroy (professional) scenes. This happened to Starcraft.

kibwen 5y ago

Indeed, I've long thought about the idea of persistent, nondeterministic UI overlays as an effective anti-cheat device. Stuff a widget in a corner of the screen and make it match the game's visual aesthetic and nobody would even mind (and make sure it persists from the moment the game boots, including during loading screens). Of course, this would require developers to care about stymying cheating speedrunners, which they certainly don't. :P

LocalH 5y ago

One of the ways he got caught was a fuckup on his part. He claimed a really high speed run of Through the Fire and Flames, and ended up taking the video down claiming copyright. This ended up being bunk, because someone saved the video while it was up and it turned out that he spliced in such a way as to "lose" something like 2,000 points mid-song. Guitar Hero has never had any mechanic to allow one to lose points they had already gained (unless it did in the earliest GH1 development days). The only thing even remotely close to that is the Big Rock Endings from the Rock Band series, where you have a series of freeform lanes to do whatever you want in order to build up a bonus, which is subsequently awarded to your actual score when you hit the final few gems after the BRE. But, those points aren't tallied to your total score until you actually hit the final gems. The score discrepancy in Schmooey's TTFAF video was a decrease in the actual score, as Clone Hero doesn't support Rock Band style BREs. It is literally impossible to have that happen legitimately, and that's why he took the video down, because it essentially was a key component of what busted him (and was also featured in the Jobst documentary).

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dm319 5y ago
A reminder of the cultural importance of youtube-dl.

dfxm12 5y ago

I think one thing to keep in mind is that cheaters in baseball, cycling, and even Donkey Kong brought more eyeballs to those games than anyone could have imagined. I'm sure a lot of people forgot GH existed before seeing this thread. I wonder how much devs should care about this in single player, score attack type games.

Akinato 5y ago
Did they? I’d argue that the next highest competitor that is competing legitimately would bring just as many eyeballs to the games. People are attracted by watching the best of the best compete — I don’t think the exact score is as important. Unless you’re talking scandals, and then I guess so? There’s temporarily more eyes on the drama but it quickly drops off.
- dfxm12 5y ago
  They did. Feel free to make that argument. Just keep in mind, at one point, people thought Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong were the best competitors competing legitimately, and people came to these sports in droves, so it's not an easy line in the sand to draw. Hell, can you even name the next highest competitor competing legitimately in the Tour de France 1999-2005? It's like those races never happened because so many people were cheating, but people were watching! Of course I'm not talking about scandals, because anyone who who has lived through this or even looked into this a little bit knows the scandals were devastating for the sports.
  - acjohnson55 5y ago
    Given the prevalence of cheating in cycling, it's still remarkable that Lance won as much as he did. I guess maybe Team USPS had a significantly better cheating regimen. Unlike Sosa/Maguire/Bonds, juiced performance isn't obvious to cycling casuals.
sabas123 5y ago
Scandals can also single handedly destroy (professional) scenes. This happened to Starcraft.