5 ms·

You literally described what addiction is in reference to MDMA. And this is going to be the problem with the drug for treating mood disorders. Just like Prozac,

You literally described what addiction is in reference to MDMA. And this is going to be the problem with the drug for treating mood disorders. Just like Prozac, it will stop working And you will need a larger dose for the same action. Just because you don’t actively go out and seek for a drug does not mean you are not addicted (conditioned)to it.

WillDaSilva 5y ago
Addiction and tolerance are related, but distinct.
- SpodGaju 5y ago
  The outcome is the same no matter the difference. But can I tell you my own brother said he "could not live without Prozac." What does that sound like to you?
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Like he’s taking a life saving medicine? How many people can’t live without insulin?
    - SpodGaju 5y ago
      If you have never taken these medication you have never known what it is like to try to stop them. Heroin could be considered a life saving medicine in the same vein. Prozac artificially increases serotonin as as a result your serotonin receptor density changes. So trying to stop the drug, not only do you end up with all these horrible side effect, but your depression will be much worse until your receptor density normalizes again. There is a biological marker for the need of insulin. There is no such thing when it comes to prozac. Keep trying people.
      - emteycz 5y ago
        There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too - it develops over time with use (and then stays for a long time). Anyways, I agree with you w.r.t. many psychiatric drugs. Don't try to spread that into psychedelics though - completely different, it has enough of its own problems and it's not necessary to make up some non-existent on top of that.
        SpodGaju 5y ago
        > There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too Not for psychiatric drugs, which is my only point. I am not against pharmaceuticals.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - chaosite 5y ago
    My own brother once said to me he "could not live without oxygen." What does that sound like to you?
    - SpodGaju 5y ago
emteycz 5y ago
Larger dose won't work. No dose will work. There is no more action until you wait long enough (usually weeks).
LocalH 5y ago
The thing about MDMA is that it causes your brain to dump your serotonin reserves into your brain all at once. Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. I think psychedelics are safer in that regard. Nobody in the history of humanity has ever physically done "too much acid". Even some people who ingested tens of thousands of micrograms (thinking they were snorting coke) came out of it perfectly fine with appropriate care (since the amount was so high compared to the usual dosages, they did need medical care).
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  > Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. Serotonin syndrome is when you have too much serotonin, not too little.
  - LocalH 5y ago
    I apologize for my miswording. Nonetheless, overuse of MDMA can indeed result in serotonin syndrome.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- fluoridation 5y ago
  I think classical psychedelics are among the safest drugs, but honestly, how is that not "too much acid"? If they needed medical care, that implies that if they hadn't received that care they would not have been perfectly fine. Yes, it was an accident caused by irresponsible use, but let's not mince words. The point where a dose is "too much" should be (at the most) the point where you need medical attention, not the point where you suffer some permanent damage or death.
  - jychang 5y ago
    "Medical care" for psychedelics really just means "strap them down so they don't hurt themselves thinking they turned into an attack helicopter so they jump off a cliff, and feed them water so they're not dehydrated" and just waiting until it wears off.

WillDaSilva 5y ago

Addiction and tolerance are related, but distinct.

SpodGaju 5y ago
The outcome is the same no matter the difference. But can I tell you my own brother said he "could not live without Prozac." What does that sound like to you?
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Like he’s taking a life saving medicine? How many people can’t live without insulin?
  - SpodGaju 5y ago
    If you have never taken these medication you have never known what it is like to try to stop them. Heroin could be considered a life saving medicine in the same vein. Prozac artificially increases serotonin as as a result your serotonin receptor density changes. So trying to stop the drug, not only do you end up with all these horrible side effect, but your depression will be much worse until your receptor density normalizes again. There is a biological marker for the need of insulin. There is no such thing when it comes to prozac. Keep trying people.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too - it develops over time with use (and then stays for a long time). Anyways, I agree with you w.r.t. many psychiatric drugs. Don't try to spread that into psychedelics though - completely different, it has enough of its own problems and it's not necessary to make up some non-existent on top of that.
      - SpodGaju 5y ago
        > There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too Not for psychiatric drugs, which is my only point. I am not against pharmaceuticals.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- chaosite 5y ago
  My own brother once said to me he "could not live without oxygen." What does that sound like to you?
  - SpodGaju 5y ago

emteycz 5y ago

Larger dose won't work. No dose will work. There is no more action until you wait long enough (usually weeks).

LocalH 5y ago

The thing about MDMA is that it causes your brain to dump your serotonin reserves into your brain all at once. Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. I think psychedelics are safer in that regard. Nobody in the history of humanity has ever physically done "too much acid". Even some people who ingested tens of thousands of micrograms (thinking they were snorting coke) came out of it perfectly fine with appropriate care (since the amount was so high compared to the usual dosages, they did need medical care).

Turing_Machine 5y ago
> Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. Serotonin syndrome is when you have too much serotonin, not too little.
- LocalH 5y ago
  I apologize for my miswording. Nonetheless, overuse of MDMA can indeed result in serotonin syndrome.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
fluoridation 5y ago
I think classical psychedelics are among the safest drugs, but honestly, how is that not "too much acid"? If they needed medical care, that implies that if they hadn't received that care they would not have been perfectly fine. Yes, it was an accident caused by irresponsible use, but let's not mince words. The point where a dose is "too much" should be (at the most) the point where you need medical attention, not the point where you suffer some permanent damage or death.
- jychang 5y ago
  "Medical care" for psychedelics really just means "strap them down so they don't hurt themselves thinking they turned into an attack helicopter so they jump off a cliff, and feed them water so they're not dehydrated" and just waiting until it wears off.