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So many people don't realise this. You haven't seen your cousin or a friend for a while? What is your perception of them now? I am sure all that Facebook likin

by kamaal 5y ago

So many people don't realise this. You haven't seen your cousin or a friend for a while? What is your perception of them now? I am sure all that Facebook liking and commenting hasn't given you a clue of what they are now, and more importantly even the perception of them from when you last had a chance to see them often has now been long forgotten/hazy. The facts here are anybody you don't see often, you don't know them well enough and they don't figure anywhere in your list of top people to give anything.

giantrobot 5y ago
> The facts here are anybody you don't see often, you don't know them well enough and they don't figure anywhere in your list of top people to give anything. Then you leave and find work with someone that doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish. If you're producing work of value you should be compensated. If the company is doing well then all of the employees should be doing well. No one should have to put on a song and dance for their managers to get their work recognized and rewarded. If your manager can't remember you unless you're in front of them at all times they're not fit for their job.
- kamaal 5y ago
  >>Then you leave and find work with someone that doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish. Which is basically every where and every one. The bad news is you now start at the bottom of your level at the new company. >>If you're producing work of value you should be compensated. How naive are developers really? >>If the company is doing well then all of the employees should be doing well. There's a pyramid everywhere, even at F/MAANG's. Some one is always paid more than others, and that some one isn't always making it up on merit. >>No one should have to put on a song and dance for their managers to get their work recognized and rewarded. Work isn't an anonymous exam, subjective judgement follows by merely existence of more than one person in a team. >>If your manager can't remember you unless you're in front of them at all times they're not fit for their job. Yeah sadly, in a performance review, its us being evaluated not them.
v-erne 5y ago
I have heard this argument against WFH many times over. Especially from my relatives that work in bullshit jobs (cough ... investment banking ... cough). I wonder if people that brings up this understand what they are really saying. Because it's not like WFH reduces the amount of promotion that goes around. Its just have the potential of reallocating it differently. And this means that they are afraid that they will be out competed by others that are willing to be near decision makers to influence (or rather manipulate them). I would argue that this says more about those people than about WFH.
- ricardobayes 5y ago
  As I work for a company that was founded during the pandemic, it's 100% remote in the truest meaning of the word. I never even considered there might be a different perception for 'WFH' which were in-person jobs that turned remote. I think for those jobs, both camps are right. To say WFH was just a temporary measure is just as valid to say you like working from home so much now you want that.
  - v-erne 5y ago
    >> I never even considered there might be a different perception for 'WFH' which were in-person jobs that turned remote. True, I was not talking about true remote job in truly remote company - if there are no possibility for in personal meeting than the power dynamic changes and the play ground is leveled for all players.
- kamaal 5y ago
  >>I would argue that this says more about those people than about WFH. Not sure what your argument is, if a person eats lunch with another person on an everyday basis, or may be goes for a tea break walk, they are also likely to talk things about family, games and other such stuff. You really shouldn't be surprised if this sort of a relationship has a stronger bonding and more meaning, and this just can't be developed by some one calling another person for a 2 minute call. And by the definition when some opportunity comes up they are more likely to remember them due to both proximity and frequency of interactions. If you have a friend whom you only occasionally ping on Facebook for a 'Happy Birthday!' message, you shouldn't be surprised if you aren't invited to parties after a while. It doesn't mean 'it says more about them', they are just reciprocating your feeling towards them, you don't want to see them in person, now neither do they. Maintaining good relationship with bosses is just one of those hygienic things you do at work, like dressing well, or using a mouth freshener or showing up everyday etc etc. If you want any influence at all, there are a few set of things you need to do, there's enough literature written about this. Things like talking well, agreeability, consensus building, clarity, having the other person empty their thoughts etc etc. You just have to do this regardless of whatever profession you are in, because this is how humans work.
greedo 5y ago
Utterly ridiculous. My best friend lives 1600 miles away, and has for 10 years. We chat daily, sharing more details of our lives than I ever thought possible. My mom lives 2000 miles away, I only get to see her once a year. Yet we talk on the phone, write emails, have FaceTime, and yes, like on FB or Instagram. A cousin I haven't seen in a long time will take catching up at meals and activities; that's the role of family reunions. The idea that you need to be physically close to be emotionally close is just silly.
- kamaal 5y ago
  >>The idea that you need to be physically close to be emotionally close is just silly. Note this works with one's mom but not wife. Meaning what is the nature of relationship you are pursuing here? Deeper the stake closer you need to be.
  - greedo 5y ago
    This is reductio ad absurdum. I don't need my boss to be an intimate partner.

by kamaal 5y ago

giantrobot 5y ago

> The facts here are anybody you don't see often, you don't know them well enough and they don't figure anywhere in your list of top people to give anything. Then you leave and find work with someone that doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish. If you're producing work of value you should be compensated. If the company is doing well then all of the employees should be doing well. No one should have to put on a song and dance for their managers to get their work recognized and rewarded. If your manager can't remember you unless you're in front of them at all times they're not fit for their job.

kamaal 5y ago
>>Then you leave and find work with someone that doesn't have the attention span of a goldfish. Which is basically every where and every one. The bad news is you now start at the bottom of your level at the new company. >>If you're producing work of value you should be compensated. How naive are developers really? >>If the company is doing well then all of the employees should be doing well. There's a pyramid everywhere, even at F/MAANG's. Some one is always paid more than others, and that some one isn't always making it up on merit. >>No one should have to put on a song and dance for their managers to get their work recognized and rewarded. Work isn't an anonymous exam, subjective judgement follows by merely existence of more than one person in a team. >>If your manager can't remember you unless you're in front of them at all times they're not fit for their job. Yeah sadly, in a performance review, its us being evaluated not them.

v-erne 5y ago

I have heard this argument against WFH many times over. Especially from my relatives that work in bullshit jobs (cough ... investment banking ... cough). I wonder if people that brings up this understand what they are really saying. Because it's not like WFH reduces the amount of promotion that goes around. Its just have the potential of reallocating it differently. And this means that they are afraid that they will be out competed by others that are willing to be near decision makers to influence (or rather manipulate them). I would argue that this says more about those people than about WFH.

ricardobayes 5y ago
As I work for a company that was founded during the pandemic, it's 100% remote in the truest meaning of the word. I never even considered there might be a different perception for 'WFH' which were in-person jobs that turned remote. I think for those jobs, both camps are right. To say WFH was just a temporary measure is just as valid to say you like working from home so much now you want that.
- v-erne 5y ago
  >> I never even considered there might be a different perception for 'WFH' which were in-person jobs that turned remote. True, I was not talking about true remote job in truly remote company - if there are no possibility for in personal meeting than the power dynamic changes and the play ground is leveled for all players.
kamaal 5y ago
>>I would argue that this says more about those people than about WFH. Not sure what your argument is, if a person eats lunch with another person on an everyday basis, or may be goes for a tea break walk, they are also likely to talk things about family, games and other such stuff. You really shouldn't be surprised if this sort of a relationship has a stronger bonding and more meaning, and this just can't be developed by some one calling another person for a 2 minute call. And by the definition when some opportunity comes up they are more likely to remember them due to both proximity and frequency of interactions. If you have a friend whom you only occasionally ping on Facebook for a 'Happy Birthday!' message, you shouldn't be surprised if you aren't invited to parties after a while. It doesn't mean 'it says more about them', they are just reciprocating your feeling towards them, you don't want to see them in person, now neither do they. Maintaining good relationship with bosses is just one of those hygienic things you do at work, like dressing well, or using a mouth freshener or showing up everyday etc etc. If you want any influence at all, there are a few set of things you need to do, there's enough literature written about this. Things like talking well, agreeability, consensus building, clarity, having the other person empty their thoughts etc etc. You just have to do this regardless of whatever profession you are in, because this is how humans work.

greedo 5y ago

Utterly ridiculous. My best friend lives 1600 miles away, and has for 10 years. We chat daily, sharing more details of our lives than I ever thought possible. My mom lives 2000 miles away, I only get to see her once a year. Yet we talk on the phone, write emails, have FaceTime, and yes, like on FB or Instagram. A cousin I haven't seen in a long time will take catching up at meals and activities; that's the role of family reunions. The idea that you need to be physically close to be emotionally close is just silly.

kamaal 5y ago
>>The idea that you need to be physically close to be emotionally close is just silly. Note this works with one's mom but not wife. Meaning what is the nature of relationship you are pursuing here? Deeper the stake closer you need to be.
- greedo 5y ago
  This is reductio ad absurdum. I don't need my boss to be an intimate partner.