3 ms·

> We all agreed on the rules as a society Actually we didn't. None of us chose to be here. None of us has a choice over when or where we're born. We all arrive

> We all agreed on the rules as a society Actually we didn't. None of us chose to be here. None of us has a choice over when or where we're born. We all arrive and grow up in societies structured and governed in ways that we've had no say over, and over which very few of us will have meaningful influence during our lifetimes. Some of this is OK, some of it isn't. Some places are more or less OK than others. But don't act like we should all simply accept everything about systems we've had no agency in building purely because we might live in a democracy.

malermeister 5y ago
I've moved countries four times in my life. You might not have chosen to be here, but others have. Speak for yourself.
- ls15 5y ago
  But did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies, ..., while the political system was something that just was in place and acceptable enough for you? I think that is what GP is aiming at. What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough?
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies Ah, pretending that "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems is peak HN. > What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough? Life is a series of compromises
    - ls15 5y ago
      > "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. > Life is a series of compromises Of course it is. That's why living in a democracy and fiat system while also using crypto is totally fine.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. It's splitting hairs now. Your original claim was, and I quote, "did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies" - Work is a spectrum between "you're forced to work at the collective farm and you don't even have documents to travel anywhere" (e.g., USSR, until about 1960s) and "move to whatever place you want and start your own company" (most of the modern world). - Family is a spectrum between "divorce is fully forbidden, punishable, or fined" (most countries with heavy religious influences, even today) to "you're free people, do what you want". And not to mention things like child care and support, rigths of husbands and wives, rights of children etc. etc. etc. - Studies is a spectrum between "women and/or non-believers and/or non-priviledged classes have no access to education" (really most countries until modern times, some countries even now) to "yeah, go ahead and study whatever you want" (most of the modern world). And so on. To pretend that major things in life are not affected by politics is disingenuous at best. There's literally, right now, a huge ongoing debate in the US about healthcare (affects family) and student debt (affects studies).
        ls15 5y ago
        I don't disagree with any of that and you are right with that it is not "unrelated" as I worded it, but my initial point was that moving is not necessarily motivated by political preferences. Many people move, because they are following opportunities (and of course these are also affected by politics). Some people move from A to B and back to A. Sometimes from democracies to dictatorships. It does not automatically mean that they do so, because they prefer one or the other system. Some people accept a political downgrade when they move.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > moving is not necessarily motivated by political preferences. "I'm moving to A because my kids can go to school there without incurring heavy debt" is influenced by politics even if it's not explicitly acknowledged. Or even if the person doesn't think it's influenced by politics. > Some people accept a political downgrade when they move. Yes, they do. Because the reasons may be [1] "I don't want my kids to be subjected to gay propaganda, I'm going back to the country that upholds traditional values", and this is again is influenced by politics even if it's not explicitly stated and the person doesn't understand that. [1] I know of some people who moved back to Russia for this stated reason.

malermeister 5y ago

I've moved countries four times in my life. You might not have chosen to be here, but others have. Speak for yourself.

ls15 5y ago
But did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies, ..., while the political system was something that just was in place and acceptable enough for you? I think that is what GP is aiming at. What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough?
- dmitriid 5y ago
  > to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies Ah, pretending that "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems is peak HN. > What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough? Life is a series of compromises
  - ls15 5y ago
    > "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. > Life is a series of compromises Of course it is. That's why living in a democracy and fiat system while also using crypto is totally fine.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. It's splitting hairs now. Your original claim was, and I quote, "did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies" - Work is a spectrum between "you're forced to work at the collective farm and you don't even have documents to travel anywhere" (e.g., USSR, until about 1960s) and "move to whatever place you want and start your own company" (most of the modern world). - Family is a spectrum between "divorce is fully forbidden, punishable, or fined" (most countries with heavy religious influences, even today) to "you're free people, do what you want". And not to mention things like child care and support, rigths of husbands and wives, rights of children etc. etc. etc. - Studies is a spectrum between "women and/or non-believers and/or non-priviledged classes have no access to education" (really most countries until modern times, some countries even now) to "yeah, go ahead and study whatever you want" (most of the modern world). And so on. To pretend that major things in life are not affected by politics is disingenuous at best. There's literally, right now, a huge ongoing debate in the US about healthcare (affects family) and student debt (affects studies).
      - ls15 5y ago
        I don't disagree with any of that and you are right with that it is not "unrelated" as I worded it, but my initial point was that moving is not necessarily motivated by political preferences. Many people move, because they are following opportunities (and of course these are also affected by politics). Some people move from A to B and back to A. Sometimes from democracies to dictatorships. It does not automatically mean that they do so, because they prefer one or the other system. Some people accept a political downgrade when they move.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > moving is not necessarily motivated by political preferences. "I'm moving to A because my kids can go to school there without incurring heavy debt" is influenced by politics even if it's not explicitly acknowledged. Or even if the person doesn't think it's influenced by politics. > Some people accept a political downgrade when they move. Yes, they do. Because the reasons may be [1] "I don't want my kids to be subjected to gay propaganda, I'm going back to the country that upholds traditional values", and this is again is influenced by politics even if it's not explicitly stated and the person doesn't understand that. [1] I know of some people who moved back to Russia for this stated reason.