5 ms·

* Evacuating money from war or authocratic leadership in a brain wallet, without running into the risk of getting it stolen at checkpoints. Of course that works

by ls15 5y ago

* Evacuating money from war or authocratic leadership in a brain wallet, without running into the risk of getting it stolen at checkpoints. Of course that works best for those who already have crypto before that door closes. * Paying for VPN anonymously with Monero. * Sending money for living to relatives that reside in countries that are sanctioned. What's more important? Knowing that your family is not hungry or following your government's doctrine? * Hide money from abusive relatives. In summary: Doing transactions without having to ask your principal for permission or having to reveal them. Seems quite empowering to me, but apparently not everyone thinks that being empowered is valuable.

malermeister 5y ago
In a democratic society, with an elected principal, it's not only not valuable, but anti-democratic and antisocial. We all agreed on the rules as a society, if somebody wants to empower themselves above them than that's not cool imo. Of course, in authoritarian governments your point stands, but then the trade-off is undermining democracies as collateral damage.
- bartread 5y ago
  > We all agreed on the rules as a society Actually we didn't. None of us chose to be here. None of us has a choice over when or where we're born. We all arrive and grow up in societies structured and governed in ways that we've had no say over, and over which very few of us will have meaningful influence during our lifetimes. Some of this is OK, some of it isn't. Some places are more or less OK than others. But don't act like we should all simply accept everything about systems we've had no agency in building purely because we might live in a democracy.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    I've moved countries four times in my life. You might not have chosen to be here, but others have. Speak for yourself.
    - ls15 5y ago
      But did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies, ..., while the political system was something that just was in place and acceptable enough for you? I think that is what GP is aiming at. What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough?
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies Ah, pretending that "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems is peak HN. > What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough? Life is a series of compromises
        ls15 5y ago
        > "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. > Life is a series of compromises Of course it is. That's why living in a democracy and fiat system while also using crypto is totally fine.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. It's splitting hairs now. Your original claim was, and I quote, "did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies" - Work is a spectrum between "you're forced to work at the collective farm and you don't even have documents to travel anywhere" (e.g., USSR, until about 1960s) and "move to whatever place you want and start your own company" (most of the modern world). - Family is a spectrum between "divorce is fully forbidden, punishable, or fined" (most countries with heavy religious influences, even today) to "you're free people, do what you want". And not to mention things like child care and support, rigths of husbands and wives, rights of children etc. etc. etc. - Studies is a spectrum between "women and/or non-believers and/or non-priviledged classes have no access to education" (really most countries until modern times, some countries even now) to "yeah, go ahead and study whatever you want" (most of the modern world). And so on. To pretend that major things in life are not affected by politics is disingenuous at best. There's literally, right now, a huge ongoing debate in the US about healthcare (affects family) and student debt (affects studies).
- ls15 5y ago
  All my examples are defensive. Defending the freedoms that are guaranteed by the underlying social contracts (but commonly ignored by those in power, even in the most democratic societies that exist) is not antisocial at all. Unlike violence, crypto specifically is not empowerment above others, but personal empowerment for everyone. Everyone can be empowered at the same time.

by ls15 5y ago

malermeister 5y ago

In a democratic society, with an elected principal, it's not only not valuable, but anti-democratic and antisocial. We all agreed on the rules as a society, if somebody wants to empower themselves above them than that's not cool imo. Of course, in authoritarian governments your point stands, but then the trade-off is undermining democracies as collateral damage.

bartread 5y ago
> We all agreed on the rules as a society Actually we didn't. None of us chose to be here. None of us has a choice over when or where we're born. We all arrive and grow up in societies structured and governed in ways that we've had no say over, and over which very few of us will have meaningful influence during our lifetimes. Some of this is OK, some of it isn't. Some places are more or less OK than others. But don't act like we should all simply accept everything about systems we've had no agency in building purely because we might live in a democracy.
- malermeister 5y ago
  I've moved countries four times in my life. You might not have chosen to be here, but others have. Speak for yourself.
  - ls15 5y ago
    But did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies, ..., while the political system was something that just was in place and acceptable enough for you? I think that is what GP is aiming at. What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough?
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies Ah, pretending that "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems is peak HN. > What if you cannot find an existing system that is open for you and acceptable enough? Life is a series of compromises
      - ls15 5y ago
        > "work, family, studies" don't depend on political systems Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. > Life is a series of compromises Of course it is. That's why living in a democracy and fiat system while also using crypto is totally fine.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > Not strictly. Especially not if you switch four times. It's splitting hairs now. Your original claim was, and I quote, "did you do so in order to enjoy different political systems, or more because of unrelated things like work, family, studies" - Work is a spectrum between "you're forced to work at the collective farm and you don't even have documents to travel anywhere" (e.g., USSR, until about 1960s) and "move to whatever place you want and start your own company" (most of the modern world). - Family is a spectrum between "divorce is fully forbidden, punishable, or fined" (most countries with heavy religious influences, even today) to "you're free people, do what you want". And not to mention things like child care and support, rigths of husbands and wives, rights of children etc. etc. etc. - Studies is a spectrum between "women and/or non-believers and/or non-priviledged classes have no access to education" (really most countries until modern times, some countries even now) to "yeah, go ahead and study whatever you want" (most of the modern world). And so on. To pretend that major things in life are not affected by politics is disingenuous at best. There's literally, right now, a huge ongoing debate in the US about healthcare (affects family) and student debt (affects studies).
ls15 5y ago
All my examples are defensive. Defending the freedoms that are guaranteed by the underlying social contracts (but commonly ignored by those in power, even in the most democratic societies that exist) is not antisocial at all. Unlike violence, crypto specifically is not empowerment above others, but personal empowerment for everyone. Everyone can be empowered at the same time.