5 ms·

Right, it should be sold next to the other poisonous stuff at the gas station that has disclaimers for the consumer to keep it away from children. The public i

Right, it should be sold next to the other poisonous stuff at the gas station that has disclaimers for the consumer to keep it away from children. The public itself needs to readjust its role with the government, where availability doesn't mean endorsement.

nerdponx 5y ago
This doesn't work with alcohol or nicotine. Why should it work with MDMA?
- taurath 5y ago
  One might rather live in a world where MDMA (a far less addicting substance with more acute rather than chronic side effects) is endemic rather than those two.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    Yeah, MDMA will simply stop working for you for a while after you do it a few times in a row. Alcohol, not really.
    - SpodGaju 5y ago
      You literally described what addiction is in reference to MDMA. And this is going to be the problem with the drug for treating mood disorders. Just like Prozac, it will stop working And you will need a larger dose for the same action. Just because you don’t actively go out and seek for a drug does not mean you are not addicted (conditioned)to it.
      - WillDaSilva 5y ago
        Addiction and tolerance are related, but distinct.
        SpodGaju 5y ago
        The outcome is the same no matter the difference. But can I tell you my own brother said he "could not live without Prozac." What does that sound like to you?
        amanaplanacanal 5y ago
        Like he’s taking a life saving medicine? How many people can’t live without insulin?
        SpodGaju 5y ago
        If you have never taken these medication you have never known what it is like to try to stop them. Heroin could be considered a life saving medicine in the same vein. Prozac artificially increases serotonin as as a result your serotonin receptor density changes. So trying to stop the drug, not only do you end up with all these horrible side effect, but your depression will be much worse until your receptor density normalizes again. There is a biological marker for the need of insulin. There is no such thing when it comes to prozac. Keep trying people.
        emteycz 5y ago
        There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too - it develops over time with use (and then stays for a long time). Anyways, I agree with you w.r.t. many psychiatric drugs. Don't try to spread that into psychedelics though - completely different, it has enough of its own problems and it's not necessary to make up some non-existent on top of that.
        SpodGaju 5y ago
        > There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too Not for psychiatric drugs, which is my only point. I am not against pharmaceuticals.
        deleted 5y ago
      - emteycz 5y ago
        Larger dose won't work. No dose will work. There is no more action until you wait long enough (usually weeks).
      - LocalH 5y ago
        The thing about MDMA is that it causes your brain to dump your serotonin reserves into your brain all at once. Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. I think psychedelics are safer in that regard. Nobody in the history of humanity has ever physically done "too much acid". Even some people who ingested tens of thousands of micrograms (thinking they were snorting coke) came out of it perfectly fine with appropriate care (since the amount was so high compared to the usual dosages, they did need medical care).
        Turing_Machine 5y ago
        > Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. Serotonin syndrome is when you have too much serotonin, not too little.
        LocalH 5y ago
        I apologize for my miswording. Nonetheless, overuse of MDMA can indeed result in serotonin syndrome.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        fluoridation 5y ago
        I think classical psychedelics are among the safest drugs, but honestly, how is that not "too much acid"? If they needed medical care, that implies that if they hadn't received that care they would not have been perfectly fine. Yes, it was an accident caused by irresponsible use, but let's not mince words. The point where a dose is "too much" should be (at the most) the point where you need medical attention, not the point where you suffer some permanent damage or death.
        jychang 5y ago
        "Medical care" for psychedelics really just means "strap them down so they don't hurt themselves thinking they turned into an attack helicopter so they jump off a cliff, and feed them water so they're not dehydrated" and just waiting until it wears off.
jychang 5y ago
YOU might be an adult, but honestly in the past few years, it seems pretty clear that plenty of people who are age 18 or 21 or even age 40 can't seem to act like adults. And I say that as someone who is a proponent of MDMA legalization. It is well known that humans can't make rational choices. If refrigerators with CFCs were still legal to purchase alongside non-CFC refrigerators, I'd be willing to bet the ozone layer would probably not exist right now. If leaded gasoline wasn't basically banned, I bet plenty of people will still drive around using leaded gasoline.
- Dma54rhs 5y ago
  True, covid only proved the public health question can't be solved from the individualistic point of view. Many drugs have a big cost on society, not just individual who decides to take them.
- watwut 5y ago
  > YOU might be an adult, but honestly in the past few years, it seems pretty clear that plenty of people who are age 18 or 21 or even age 40 can't seem to act like adults. That is because "acting like adult" is used as term of approval. It means "a theoretically ideal" behavior. It does not mean "average adult have that psychology" nor "average adult have that value".
  - jychang 5y ago
    That's like calling "getting a C- in a class so that you pass the class" or "not pissing your own pants" some sort of "theoretically ideal" behavior. Yes, it's "ideal" in the sense that not everyone accomplishes that behavior (some people will fail a class or have bladder issues, obviously). But that doesn't mean "half the population failing Algebra I" or "half the population regularly pees their own pants" is an acceptable outcome in society. Just because you can define "acting like an adult" as ideal rather than true in all real cases doesn't mean it shouldn't be an expectation.
- vmception 5y ago
  This doesn’t seem to change my point. Lysol can kill you and all your children. Mouthwash can. And for something with more similarities: advil. All sold in gas stations. So, do the studies just so that we can have fine print on the side of the bottle just like everything else, and sell it alongside everything else.

nerdponx 5y ago

This doesn't work with alcohol or nicotine. Why should it work with MDMA?

taurath 5y ago
One might rather live in a world where MDMA (a far less addicting substance with more acute rather than chronic side effects) is endemic rather than those two.
- emteycz 5y ago
  Yeah, MDMA will simply stop working for you for a while after you do it a few times in a row. Alcohol, not really.
  - SpodGaju 5y ago
    You literally described what addiction is in reference to MDMA. And this is going to be the problem with the drug for treating mood disorders. Just like Prozac, it will stop working And you will need a larger dose for the same action. Just because you don’t actively go out and seek for a drug does not mean you are not addicted (conditioned)to it.
    - WillDaSilva 5y ago
      Addiction and tolerance are related, but distinct.
      - SpodGaju 5y ago
        The outcome is the same no matter the difference. But can I tell you my own brother said he "could not live without Prozac." What does that sound like to you?
        amanaplanacanal 5y ago
        Like he’s taking a life saving medicine? How many people can’t live without insulin?
        SpodGaju 5y ago
        If you have never taken these medication you have never known what it is like to try to stop them. Heroin could be considered a life saving medicine in the same vein. Prozac artificially increases serotonin as as a result your serotonin receptor density changes. So trying to stop the drug, not only do you end up with all these horrible side effect, but your depression will be much worse until your receptor density normalizes again. There is a biological marker for the need of insulin. There is no such thing when it comes to prozac. Keep trying people.
        emteycz 5y ago
        There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too - it develops over time with use (and then stays for a long time). Anyways, I agree with you w.r.t. many psychiatric drugs. Don't try to spread that into psychedelics though - completely different, it has enough of its own problems and it's not necessary to make up some non-existent on top of that.
        SpodGaju 5y ago
        > There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too Not for psychiatric drugs, which is my only point. I am not against pharmaceuticals.
        deleted 5y ago
    - emteycz 5y ago
      Larger dose won't work. No dose will work. There is no more action until you wait long enough (usually weeks).
    - LocalH 5y ago
      The thing about MDMA is that it causes your brain to dump your serotonin reserves into your brain all at once. Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. I think psychedelics are safer in that regard. Nobody in the history of humanity has ever physically done "too much acid". Even some people who ingested tens of thousands of micrograms (thinking they were snorting coke) came out of it perfectly fine with appropriate care (since the amount was so high compared to the usual dosages, they did need medical care).
      - Turing_Machine 5y ago
        > Doing that too often, without letting your serotonin rebuild, can cause serotonin syndrome. Serotonin syndrome is when you have too much serotonin, not too little.
        LocalH 5y ago
        I apologize for my miswording. Nonetheless, overuse of MDMA can indeed result in serotonin syndrome.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - fluoridation 5y ago
        I think classical psychedelics are among the safest drugs, but honestly, how is that not "too much acid"? If they needed medical care, that implies that if they hadn't received that care they would not have been perfectly fine. Yes, it was an accident caused by irresponsible use, but let's not mince words. The point where a dose is "too much" should be (at the most) the point where you need medical attention, not the point where you suffer some permanent damage or death.
        jychang 5y ago
        "Medical care" for psychedelics really just means "strap them down so they don't hurt themselves thinking they turned into an attack helicopter so they jump off a cliff, and feed them water so they're not dehydrated" and just waiting until it wears off.

jychang 5y ago

YOU might be an adult, but honestly in the past few years, it seems pretty clear that plenty of people who are age 18 or 21 or even age 40 can't seem to act like adults. And I say that as someone who is a proponent of MDMA legalization. It is well known that humans can't make rational choices. If refrigerators with CFCs were still legal to purchase alongside non-CFC refrigerators, I'd be willing to bet the ozone layer would probably not exist right now. If leaded gasoline wasn't basically banned, I bet plenty of people will still drive around using leaded gasoline.

Dma54rhs 5y ago
True, covid only proved the public health question can't be solved from the individualistic point of view. Many drugs have a big cost on society, not just individual who decides to take them.
watwut 5y ago
> YOU might be an adult, but honestly in the past few years, it seems pretty clear that plenty of people who are age 18 or 21 or even age 40 can't seem to act like adults. That is because "acting like adult" is used as term of approval. It means "a theoretically ideal" behavior. It does not mean "average adult have that psychology" nor "average adult have that value".
- jychang 5y ago
  That's like calling "getting a C- in a class so that you pass the class" or "not pissing your own pants" some sort of "theoretically ideal" behavior. Yes, it's "ideal" in the sense that not everyone accomplishes that behavior (some people will fail a class or have bladder issues, obviously). But that doesn't mean "half the population failing Algebra I" or "half the population regularly pees their own pants" is an acceptable outcome in society. Just because you can define "acting like an adult" as ideal rather than true in all real cases doesn't mean it shouldn't be an expectation.
vmception 5y ago
This doesn’t seem to change my point. Lysol can kill you and all your children. Mouthwash can. And for something with more similarities: advil. All sold in gas stations. So, do the studies just so that we can have fine print on the side of the bottle just like everything else, and sell it alongside everything else.