8 ms·

What’s New Between Java 11 and Java 17? (2021)

69 points by ptrik 5y ago

ibiza 5y ago
Conveniences. Will Valhalla or Loom ever drop?
- lolive 5y ago
  Exactly the question I asked myself ;)
- adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
  My guess is 2 years before Fortran gets generics.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Too bad Fortran already has them. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/documentation/fortran-compiler-oneapi-dev-guide-and-reference/top/language-reference/data-types-constants-and-variables/derived-data-types/parameterized-derived-type-declarations.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/documentatio...
- jpgvm 5y ago
  They will, getting closer all the time. I don't think before ~Java 21 but I think that isn't an unreasonable time frame considering how big they are.
fulafel 5y ago
It would be interesting to see qualitative surveys of new Java code that appears eg on Github that would give information about whether the real-world practice in Java is converging toward expressivity of higher level languages and reduced incidental complexity.
scubbo 5y ago
Some great features here! Looking forward to when my team upgrades to Java 17 in 2035!
- cryptos 5y ago
  Be prepared. It is only 13 years from now on!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
oaiey 5y ago
It looks like C# and Java are now developed in parallel with the same features.
- koyote 5y ago
  I was about to say the same thing. As someone who moved from Java to C# around 2013, I always felt that C# was close to Java but with less bad parts and more good parts. Looks like Java's now borrowing a lot of the nicer features which is good to see. There are still so many nice exclusive features in C# that I definitely wouldn't want to go back to Java any time soon though (properties, powerful tuples, null coalescing, interpolated strings, ...).
  - azth 5y ago
    > interpolated strings https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/8273943 https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/8273943
  - cheradenine_uk 5y ago
    I feel similarly - though I think it's more the case that Java considers things a lot longer and considers the implications before simply adding them. Java needed string interpolation forever before _finally_ getting something. There are parts of C# that I think are going to look like a good idea at the time, but turned out not so great. Extension methods is one, and async/await is another. In fact, if Project Loom ever, finally, actually ships it'll make the whole c# code colouring thing look like the abomination that it is.
    - oaiey 5y ago
      I actually like the code colouring. It is clear indication that the function is optimized for asynchronoty and that I need to take care how to properly integrate then to achieve the goal. Is the Async suffix stupid: yes. Is a clear indication needed: imho yes
- pjmlp 5y ago
  It has always been like that. Java attributes and compiler plugins took their inspiration from .NET early version. Default method interfaces in C# come from Java, LINQ vs streams, JIT / PGO caches,... That is why it is still relatively easy to do consulting across both platforms.
jicea 5y ago
I’m a backend developper, working on medium to big Spring Boot apps. Two years ago, we introduced Kotlin in our code base with really good results on code quality. With Java 17, the gap is narrowing between Kotlin and Java. Kotlin has still unique features that I love (extension methods for instance), but the big one is nullability. You can use @Nullable/@NotNull annotations in Java but I largely prefer having nullability backed in types with Kotlin. Some people say nullability is not a problem: with 30 developers of various quality, I can ensure it is a problem. I don’t see Java addressing nullability in a better way in the near future, so I’m going to stick with Kotlin.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Put PMD or Sonar into the CI server and every of those 30 devs get the fun to be made famous for breaking the build.
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    Currently using SonarQube at the company where i work - since the scanning is async, the CI builds typically don't wait for it to be finished, otherwise the lead time for changes would grow (e.g. not one of those places where a server farm would run integration tests overnight either) and additional configuration would be necessary, for which there are no resources at the time. Furthermore, SonarQube doesn't let you automatically enable e-mail notifications for everyone: https://docs.sonarqube.org/latest/instance-administration/notifications/ https://docs.sonarqube.org/latest/instance-administration/no... > Only users who subscribe themselves will get notifications. With only one exception, there is no admin functionality to proactively subscribe another user. If you believe a user should be receiving notifications, then it's time to practice the gentle art of persuasion. So everyone is also free to ignore the e-mails that they may or may not receive. This isn't made any easier by the default quality profiles being problematic to deal with, e.g. SonarQube asking you to add HTML tags which would break XHTML templating in certain frameworks, such as PrimeFaces, thus having to spend a lot of time marking stuff as false positives, since that actual check might be sometimes useful except for your particular circumstances, of which it is not aware. So perhaps it's a good idea to indeed utilize a language or another integrated solution (versioned/shared IDE code style preferences are also pretty cool), since other solutions, although workable with a bit of effort, wouldn't necessarily thrive in all environments. Unless, of course, you want to find a different environment, but that's a slightly different discussion.
phobus 5y ago
god i'm old

69 points by ptrik 5y ago

ibiza 5y ago

Conveniences. Will Valhalla or Loom ever drop?

lolive 5y ago
Exactly the question I asked myself ;)
adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
My guess is 2 years before Fortran gets generics.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Too bad Fortran already has them. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/documentation/fortran-compiler-oneapi-dev-guide-and-reference/top/language-reference/data-types-constants-and-variables/derived-data-types/parameterized-derived-type-declarations.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/documentatio...
jpgvm 5y ago
They will, getting closer all the time. I don't think before ~Java 21 but I think that isn't an unreasonable time frame considering how big they are.

fulafel 5y ago

It would be interesting to see qualitative surveys of new Java code that appears eg on Github that would give information about whether the real-world practice in Java is converging toward expressivity of higher level languages and reduced incidental complexity.

scubbo 5y ago

Some great features here! Looking forward to when my team upgrades to Java 17 in 2035!

cryptos 5y ago
Be prepared. It is only 13 years from now on!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

oaiey 5y ago

It looks like C# and Java are now developed in parallel with the same features.

koyote 5y ago
I was about to say the same thing. As someone who moved from Java to C# around 2013, I always felt that C# was close to Java but with less bad parts and more good parts. Looks like Java's now borrowing a lot of the nicer features which is good to see. There are still so many nice exclusive features in C# that I definitely wouldn't want to go back to Java any time soon though (properties, powerful tuples, null coalescing, interpolated strings, ...).
- azth 5y ago
  > interpolated strings https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/8273943 https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/8273943
- cheradenine_uk 5y ago
  I feel similarly - though I think it's more the case that Java considers things a lot longer and considers the implications before simply adding them. Java needed string interpolation forever before _finally_ getting something. There are parts of C# that I think are going to look like a good idea at the time, but turned out not so great. Extension methods is one, and async/await is another. In fact, if Project Loom ever, finally, actually ships it'll make the whole c# code colouring thing look like the abomination that it is.
  - oaiey 5y ago
    I actually like the code colouring. It is clear indication that the function is optimized for asynchronoty and that I need to take care how to properly integrate then to achieve the goal. Is the Async suffix stupid: yes. Is a clear indication needed: imho yes
pjmlp 5y ago
It has always been like that. Java attributes and compiler plugins took their inspiration from .NET early version. Default method interfaces in C# come from Java, LINQ vs streams, JIT / PGO caches,... That is why it is still relatively easy to do consulting across both platforms.

jicea 5y ago

I’m a backend developper, working on medium to big Spring Boot apps. Two years ago, we introduced Kotlin in our code base with really good results on code quality. With Java 17, the gap is narrowing between Kotlin and Java. Kotlin has still unique features that I love (extension methods for instance), but the big one is nullability. You can use @Nullable/@NotNull annotations in Java but I largely prefer having nullability backed in types with Kotlin. Some people say nullability is not a problem: with 30 developers of various quality, I can ensure it is a problem. I don’t see Java addressing nullability in a better way in the near future, so I’m going to stick with Kotlin.

pjmlp 5y ago
Put PMD or Sonar into the CI server and every of those 30 devs get the fun to be made famous for breaking the build.
- KronisLV 5y ago
  Currently using SonarQube at the company where i work - since the scanning is async, the CI builds typically don't wait for it to be finished, otherwise the lead time for changes would grow (e.g. not one of those places where a server farm would run integration tests overnight either) and additional configuration would be necessary, for which there are no resources at the time. Furthermore, SonarQube doesn't let you automatically enable e-mail notifications for everyone: https://docs.sonarqube.org/latest/instance-administration/notifications/ https://docs.sonarqube.org/latest/instance-administration/no... > Only users who subscribe themselves will get notifications. With only one exception, there is no admin functionality to proactively subscribe another user. If you believe a user should be receiving notifications, then it's time to practice the gentle art of persuasion. So everyone is also free to ignore the e-mails that they may or may not receive. This isn't made any easier by the default quality profiles being problematic to deal with, e.g. SonarQube asking you to add HTML tags which would break XHTML templating in certain frameworks, such as PrimeFaces, thus having to spend a lot of time marking stuff as false positives, since that actual check might be sometimes useful except for your particular circumstances, of which it is not aware. So perhaps it's a good idea to indeed utilize a language or another integrated solution (versioned/shared IDE code style preferences are also pretty cool), since other solutions, although workable with a bit of effort, wouldn't necessarily thrive in all environments. Unless, of course, you want to find a different environment, but that's a slightly different discussion.

phobus 5y ago

god i'm old