4 ms·

That would be amazing.

killjoywashere 5y ago
Keep in mind that China will not stop being a problem, it just moves it around. The CCP will have more people in the US with family back in China, so they can manipulate those in the US to steal and spy for them. They will grow the presence of CSSAs and universities will become increasingly dependent on income from fulltime Chinese students, which will paradoxically disincentivize US universities from educating US students. One needs only look at the UC system to see this is true (they're not shy about it, plenty of details here https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-...). I'm not saying the COMPETES Act is good or bad, just that it's going to reshape the China problem a bit. And for those itching to downvote me: the Chinese people are fine folks. the CCP is a helluva problem.
- ceeplusplus 5y ago
  Ah yes, because every PhD immigrant that comes to the US must be a CCP agent. Why don't we just dispense with the thin veil you're trying to hide your racism behind?
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I think this is a bit of an extreme response. I don't think the parent was suggesting that every Chinese PhD student in the US (or even a majority of them) is a CCP agent, just that it does happen, and the more Chinese PhD students who end up in the US, it's likely that more of them will be beholden to the CCP in some way. I think your framing as "agents" is a bit sensationalized. You're evoking images of these highly-trained spies willing to do anything to steal for their country. My expectation is that most folks are just regular-Joe type people who just want a good education, but are pressured by their government to pass back certain kinds of information (with under-specified by scary consequences for their family if they don't comply). I have a lot of sympathy for the people who get caught up in this situation. They're people who are trapped in a way that requires them to pay a higher (moral) price to obtain a good education. I'm not sure I'd have the strength to behave any differently if I were in their shoes. (Also consider that the US's industrialization was fueled by plenty of academic and industrial espionage. That doesn't make what goes on today ok, but let's not pretend our historical hands are clean.)
  - someguydave 5y ago
    America is many times less racist than China is. I think it is proper to debate the degree to which allowing Chinese citizens to immigrate helps or hurts America.
- eli_gottlieb 5y ago
  >universities will become increasingly dependent on income from fulltime Chinese students I mean, sure, because Americans keep voting to defund public higher ed.

Keep in mind that China will not stop being a problem, it just moves it around. The CCP will have more people in the US with family back in China, so they can manipulate those in the US to steal and spy for them. They will grow the presence of CSSAs and universities will become increasingly dependent on income from fulltime Chinese students, which will paradoxically disincentivize US universities from educating US students. One needs only look at the UC system to see this is true (they're not shy about it, plenty of details here https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-...). I'm not saying the COMPETES Act is good or bad, just that it's going to reshape the China problem a bit. And for those itching to downvote me: the Chinese people are fine folks. the CCP is a helluva problem.

ceeplusplus 5y ago
Ah yes, because every PhD immigrant that comes to the US must be a CCP agent. Why don't we just dispense with the thin veil you're trying to hide your racism behind?
- kelnos 5y ago
  I think this is a bit of an extreme response. I don't think the parent was suggesting that every Chinese PhD student in the US (or even a majority of them) is a CCP agent, just that it does happen, and the more Chinese PhD students who end up in the US, it's likely that more of them will be beholden to the CCP in some way. I think your framing as "agents" is a bit sensationalized. You're evoking images of these highly-trained spies willing to do anything to steal for their country. My expectation is that most folks are just regular-Joe type people who just want a good education, but are pressured by their government to pass back certain kinds of information (with under-specified by scary consequences for their family if they don't comply). I have a lot of sympathy for the people who get caught up in this situation. They're people who are trapped in a way that requires them to pay a higher (moral) price to obtain a good education. I'm not sure I'd have the strength to behave any differently if I were in their shoes. (Also consider that the US's industrialization was fueled by plenty of academic and industrial espionage. That doesn't make what goes on today ok, but let's not pretend our historical hands are clean.)
- someguydave 5y ago
  America is many times less racist than China is. I think it is proper to debate the degree to which allowing Chinese citizens to immigrate helps or hurts America.
eli_gottlieb 5y ago
>universities will become increasingly dependent on income from fulltime Chinese students I mean, sure, because Americans keep voting to defund public higher ed.