4 ms·

Not everyone who works at a company loves the company. A lot of people might think things their company does is pretty despicable. If it's the best place to ex

Not everyone who works at a company loves the company. A lot of people might think things their company does is pretty despicable. If it's the best place to extract maximum benefits (money, experience, recognition, etc) - then you take the good with the bad.

JasonFruit 5y ago
See also 'mercenary'.
- solveit 5y ago
  See 'anyone working at a large company ever'. Any large group of people with any kind of goal and any amount of power(doesn't even have to be a company) will do despicable things, it's almost a law of nature. Google's collusion is barely a blip on the bad stuff people do.
caboteria 5y ago
Someone who works at a company that does things that they find despicable because they're optimizing their benefits sounds like a textbook psychopath.
ditonal 5y ago
This is certainly true for some Googlers, but there are many true believers (at least when I was there). Many people there sincerely think Google is a special company - the company was even arrogant enough in their IPO to say they "not a conventional company, and not intending to become one". Even outside Google, the halo effect is insane. Look at how much hate companies like Facebook and Uber get on HN. But if you break down the scandals side by side, you'll realize Google has by far the worst ethics in the industry. For example, Uber is accused of being sexist because a woman wrote an open letter that she was excluded in various ways as an employee there, such as not receiving swag in her size as the only woman on the team. That sounds like a shitty culture. Meanwhile, Vic Gundotra was credibly accused of inviting 22 year old junior SWEs to exec offsites to sexually harass them. Andy Rubin was found to have sexually assaulted a subordinate, according to Google's own investigation, and recieved a 90M payout. What's a worse workplace for women? Not getting swag in your size, or being raped? Yet when I worked at Google when all these scandals took place, ordering an Uber was a huge faux paus. You had to order a Lyft because "Uber=sexist." Even now on a recent thread I mentioned how all these tech companies are more evil than your typical crypto startup, people said "only Uber and Facebook" look bad on a resume. I would argue that's purely a function of PR because I challenge anyone to debate me that Facebook or Uber had worse ethics scandals than Google. Google has one of the strongest PR machines of all time and its effect on sentiment inside and outside the company is indisputable.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  Why are you convinced that ethics is all people care about? Some people think Google is a good product. Nearly everyone on HN hates Facebook and I think most people hate Instagram, too, now?
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Facebook IS an ethics violation.
- andrewem 5y ago
  Your characterization of Uber leaves out the sexual harassment from the source you mentioned: “On my first official day rotating on the team, my new manager sent me a string of messages over company chat… He was trying to stay out of trouble at work, he said, but he couldn't help getting in trouble, because he was looking for women to have sex with… When I reported the situation, I was told by both HR and upper management that even though this was clearly sexual harassment and he was propositioning me, it was this man's first offense, and that they wouldn't feel comfortable giving him anything other than a warning and a stern talking-to… Within a few months, he was reported once again for inappropriate behavior, and those who reported him were told it was still his "first offense". The situation was escalated as far up the chain as it could be escalated, and still nothing was done.” https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

JasonFruit 5y ago

See also 'mercenary'.

solveit 5y ago
See 'anyone working at a large company ever'. Any large group of people with any kind of goal and any amount of power(doesn't even have to be a company) will do despicable things, it's almost a law of nature. Google's collusion is barely a blip on the bad stuff people do.

caboteria 5y ago

Someone who works at a company that does things that they find despicable because they're optimizing their benefits sounds like a textbook psychopath.

ditonal 5y ago

This is certainly true for some Googlers, but there are many true believers (at least when I was there). Many people there sincerely think Google is a special company - the company was even arrogant enough in their IPO to say they "not a conventional company, and not intending to become one". Even outside Google, the halo effect is insane. Look at how much hate companies like Facebook and Uber get on HN. But if you break down the scandals side by side, you'll realize Google has by far the worst ethics in the industry. For example, Uber is accused of being sexist because a woman wrote an open letter that she was excluded in various ways as an employee there, such as not receiving swag in her size as the only woman on the team. That sounds like a shitty culture. Meanwhile, Vic Gundotra was credibly accused of inviting 22 year old junior SWEs to exec offsites to sexually harass them. Andy Rubin was found to have sexually assaulted a subordinate, according to Google's own investigation, and recieved a 90M payout. What's a worse workplace for women? Not getting swag in your size, or being raped? Yet when I worked at Google when all these scandals took place, ordering an Uber was a huge faux paus. You had to order a Lyft because "Uber=sexist." Even now on a recent thread I mentioned how all these tech companies are more evil than your typical crypto startup, people said "only Uber and Facebook" look bad on a resume. I would argue that's purely a function of PR because I challenge anyone to debate me that Facebook or Uber had worse ethics scandals than Google. Google has one of the strongest PR machines of all time and its effect on sentiment inside and outside the company is indisputable.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
Why are you convinced that ethics is all people care about? Some people think Google is a good product. Nearly everyone on HN hates Facebook and I think most people hate Instagram, too, now?
datavirtue 5y ago
Facebook IS an ethics violation.
andrewem 5y ago
Your characterization of Uber leaves out the sexual harassment from the source you mentioned: “On my first official day rotating on the team, my new manager sent me a string of messages over company chat… He was trying to stay out of trouble at work, he said, but he couldn't help getting in trouble, because he was looking for women to have sex with… When I reported the situation, I was told by both HR and upper management that even though this was clearly sexual harassment and he was propositioning me, it was this man's first offense, and that they wouldn't feel comfortable giving him anything other than a warning and a stern talking-to… Within a few months, he was reported once again for inappropriate behavior, and those who reported him were told it was still his "first offense". The situation was escalated as far up the chain as it could be escalated, and still nothing was done.” https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on...
deleted 5y ago
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