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It also overlooks the fact that elasticity is not constant, it changes as the price changes. Tax high enough, and demand will become elastic, if for no other r

It also overlooks the fact that elasticity is not constant, it changes as the price changes. Tax high enough, and demand will become elastic, if for no other reason than the tax becomes unaffordable. If you believe that human society cannot afford to continue relying on fossil fuels, because they are an existential threat to civilisation, then it follows that the tax on those fuels also needs to become unaffordable. Taxing fuels and other carbon emissions at a high enough rate to actually stop people using them is politically never going to happen.

throwaway6532 5y ago
>If you believe that human society cannot afford to continue relying on fossil fuels, because they are an existential threat to civilisation, then it follows that the tax on those fuels also needs to become unaffordable. I think if you cut out all fossil fuels society would just not work. At least not at the scale it currently does. Even so called "renewables" are really only possible because of the complex society that fossil fuels allow. The more I dig into reneweables the more I feel like once fossil fuels go away, we largely go back to the stone age.
- joebob42 5y ago
  I think the hope is that we bootstrap the renewable capable complex society on top of fossil fuels and then it can continue to function with the renewables it builds.
  - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
    Every society does this. We grow, change, and evolve… or perish. Our generation has an opportunity to build a sustainable and robust society. If we do succeed, that’ll be up to us.
  - throwaway6532 5y ago
    I know that that's the hope, but there are some very questionable assumptions it's based on. The more I dig into it the more I get the sense that while there are solutions being investigated across a wide variety of domains for how to replace fossil fuels, there isn't an integrated picture of what such an endgame looks like and what size society it will actually support. Then there's things like sand, water tables, synthetic fertilizers, and demographics to take into account too. You're essentially in a race against time to retool the entirety of society before the effects of fossil fuels either through climate change or human conflict destabilize the society past the point of being capable of doing so. I would almost certainly bet against us.
DennisP 5y ago
As long as there are alternative to the fossil fuels, you just have to set the tax high enough so alternatives are cheaper. If you redistribute the money to the population, then people with low emissions would have a low net cost, and might even come out ahead. They'll still be incentivized to go with the now-cheaper low-emissions alternatives.
bjourne 5y ago
> If you believe that human society cannot afford to continue relying on fossil fuels, because they are an existential threat to civilisation, then it follows that the tax on those fuels also needs to become unaffordable. Why bother with taxes? Just outlaw fossil fuel altogether. If you like to go around punching people in the face there is no super high tax you can pay for the privilege to "offset the externalities." You just aren't allowed to do it.

throwaway6532 5y ago

>If you believe that human society cannot afford to continue relying on fossil fuels, because they are an existential threat to civilisation, then it follows that the tax on those fuels also needs to become unaffordable. I think if you cut out all fossil fuels society would just not work. At least not at the scale it currently does. Even so called "renewables" are really only possible because of the complex society that fossil fuels allow. The more I dig into reneweables the more I feel like once fossil fuels go away, we largely go back to the stone age.

joebob42 5y ago
I think the hope is that we bootstrap the renewable capable complex society on top of fossil fuels and then it can continue to function with the renewables it builds.
- thoughtstheseus 5y ago
  Every society does this. We grow, change, and evolve… or perish. Our generation has an opportunity to build a sustainable and robust society. If we do succeed, that’ll be up to us.
- throwaway6532 5y ago
  I know that that's the hope, but there are some very questionable assumptions it's based on. The more I dig into it the more I get the sense that while there are solutions being investigated across a wide variety of domains for how to replace fossil fuels, there isn't an integrated picture of what such an endgame looks like and what size society it will actually support. Then there's things like sand, water tables, synthetic fertilizers, and demographics to take into account too. You're essentially in a race against time to retool the entirety of society before the effects of fossil fuels either through climate change or human conflict destabilize the society past the point of being capable of doing so. I would almost certainly bet against us.

DennisP 5y ago

As long as there are alternative to the fossil fuels, you just have to set the tax high enough so alternatives are cheaper. If you redistribute the money to the population, then people with low emissions would have a low net cost, and might even come out ahead. They'll still be incentivized to go with the now-cheaper low-emissions alternatives.

bjourne 5y ago

> If you believe that human society cannot afford to continue relying on fossil fuels, because they are an existential threat to civilisation, then it follows that the tax on those fuels also needs to become unaffordable. Why bother with taxes? Just outlaw fossil fuel altogether. If you like to go around punching people in the face there is no super high tax you can pay for the privilege to "offset the externalities." You just aren't allowed to do it.