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> Nonetheless, it served as strong evidence as to how even really smart people can get caught up in cult-like communities. I see it differently. It seems like

> Nonetheless, it served as strong evidence as to how even really smart people can get caught up in cult-like communities. I see it differently. It seems like strong evidence as to how smart the average googler really is. If you start with the assumption these people are smart then you can reach your conclusion, but if you discard that assumption you just have a group of gullible employees.

solveit 5y ago
Lol, every HN commenter knows Google was in the wrong but the Googlers themselves didn't because they're gullible. No, the Googlers didn't buy it but continued working because when it comes to it, thinking your company does shady things is very rarely sufficient to get you to up and leave. Is your company bigger than, say, a thousand people? Then they have definitely done something as bad as Google's collusion and you know it even if you don't know what. Are you going to leave?
- MegaButts 5y ago
  I agree with you, and I'm very much of the opinion that most techies are entitled assholes who only care about enriching themselves. I was just pointing out what I considered to be a flaw in GP's reasoning. > Are you going to leave? I did, actually (more than once). And it's what made me realize how few engineers care about anything other than their paychecks and ultimately themselves. When push comes to shove, the vast majority of people I've met and worked with have no qualms looking the other way for more compensation.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    > When push comes to shove, the vast majority of people I've met and worked with have no qualms looking the other way for more compensation. When push comes to shove, those people would have no power to change things anyway in the vast majority of cases. You can either live in a terrible world rich, or poor - in both cases the world wouldn't change but at least your life will be better. A lot of problems are big enough that only governments can deal with them by the use of laws and appropriate enforcement (eventually escalating to violence if needed). But if the governments themselves benefit from the problem, or are owned by the corporations (corruption, or "lobbying" as it's called in the US), there's no chance for a few individuals to make a difference.
    - MegaButts 5y ago
      I disagree that employees have no power to make a difference. It's learned helplessness. By that logic, unions are also ineffective at bargaining. The point is you have to actually work together instead of for yourself.
  - AYBABTME 5y ago
    If we all left every company as soon as they commit some immoral things, there'd be no company surviving beyond a few months. If we ditched all our friends as soon as they commit some immoral thing, we'd have no friends. If we ditched our countries as soon as they commit some immoral thing, we'd have no countries. All entities, one day or another, commit some immoral thing according to some relative morality. We can't expect that they never will. Of course, a consistent and repeat offender should not be rewarded with our support. But it's unreasonable to hold people and groups of people to unreasonable standards, such as "sustained perfect moral behavior". The average Googler most likely than not thinks that what Google did is bad, but not bad enough overall to warrant their quitting.

solveit 5y ago

Lol, every HN commenter knows Google was in the wrong but the Googlers themselves didn't because they're gullible. No, the Googlers didn't buy it but continued working because when it comes to it, thinking your company does shady things is very rarely sufficient to get you to up and leave. Is your company bigger than, say, a thousand people? Then they have definitely done something as bad as Google's collusion and you know it even if you don't know what. Are you going to leave?

MegaButts 5y ago
I agree with you, and I'm very much of the opinion that most techies are entitled assholes who only care about enriching themselves. I was just pointing out what I considered to be a flaw in GP's reasoning. > Are you going to leave? I did, actually (more than once). And it's what made me realize how few engineers care about anything other than their paychecks and ultimately themselves. When push comes to shove, the vast majority of people I've met and worked with have no qualms looking the other way for more compensation.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > When push comes to shove, the vast majority of people I've met and worked with have no qualms looking the other way for more compensation. When push comes to shove, those people would have no power to change things anyway in the vast majority of cases. You can either live in a terrible world rich, or poor - in both cases the world wouldn't change but at least your life will be better. A lot of problems are big enough that only governments can deal with them by the use of laws and appropriate enforcement (eventually escalating to violence if needed). But if the governments themselves benefit from the problem, or are owned by the corporations (corruption, or "lobbying" as it's called in the US), there's no chance for a few individuals to make a difference.
  - MegaButts 5y ago
    I disagree that employees have no power to make a difference. It's learned helplessness. By that logic, unions are also ineffective at bargaining. The point is you have to actually work together instead of for yourself.
- AYBABTME 5y ago
  If we all left every company as soon as they commit some immoral things, there'd be no company surviving beyond a few months. If we ditched all our friends as soon as they commit some immoral thing, we'd have no friends. If we ditched our countries as soon as they commit some immoral thing, we'd have no countries. All entities, one day or another, commit some immoral thing according to some relative morality. We can't expect that they never will. Of course, a consistent and repeat offender should not be rewarded with our support. But it's unreasonable to hold people and groups of people to unreasonable standards, such as "sustained perfect moral behavior". The average Googler most likely than not thinks that what Google did is bad, but not bad enough overall to warrant their quitting.