9 ms·

The ideal tenant candidate already owns a house and doesn't need to rent. Having been both landlord and tenant at various stages of my life, my first law of la

The ideal tenant candidate already owns a house and doesn't need to rent. Having been both landlord and tenant at various stages of my life, my first law of landlording is that trouble from tenants varies inversely with the square of the rent.

drBonkers 5y ago
tenant_trouble ∝ 1/rent²
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
sbierwagen 5y ago
Annoying "well actually" counterexample: my rent hasn't kept up with inflation, and I'm doing everything possible to avoid coming to the notice of my landlord. A call about a leaky faucet could cost me an additional six thousand dollars a year.
- KeepFlying 5y ago
  You've described my situation too, though it's not a rent increase I'm worried about, it's the installation of a mandatory smart lock that I've somehow avoided for a few months now.
  - vsareto 5y ago
    I signed a lease which specifically stated that I was responsible for providing the internet for the smart locks and devices within the apartment. I brought this up to them, but they said "Nah, you don't have to do that" and wouldn't remove it from the lease. They were correct though: everything functioned before I had internet and I never had to join them to my network, but it made me think about the rest of the stuff in the very legally binding lease that worked similarly.
  - safsfaas 5y ago
    Why do you not want a smart lock? As a renter I wouldn't like it too, I would think why does the landlord need to know when I go/come to the house. But as a landlord I use smart lock and the need is different, its useful because I don't have to change locks every time a get a new renter, I just change the codes (specially if I consider doing short term rentals/airbnb at some point/season) and I don't have to worry about any spare copies of the keys made by the renters. Generally smart locks, in my experience, need internet to change codes without having to be physically present, not for lock/unlock functionality.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      > its useful because I don't have to change locks every time a get a new renter, I just change the codes (specially if I consider doing short term rentals/airbnb at some point/season) and I don't have to worry about any spare copies of the keys made by the renters. Is that something that people generally worry about? I’m pretty sure none of the rentals I’ve lived in over the past decade had the locks changed between tenants.
      - stu2b50 5y ago
        If it’s not, it should be, if nothing else then for the safety of your next tenant.
        ComputerGuru 5y ago
        It (like everything else to do with renting) depends on the socioeconomic demographics of your renters.
      - hluska 5y ago
        I live in a remarkably shitty, crime ridden city and having locks changed is a standard part of rental contracts. It’s so standard that every August, our local papers’ “student guides” suggest that new renters ask about having locks changed. Knowing what I know now, I’d actually leave a city if I saw that term in a contract.
      - 5y ago
- asdff 5y ago
  This is why I'm thankful for my rent controlled apartment. No surprises down the road at all with rent increases being capped to something reasonable; as long as I continue holding a job I can pretty much always afford this apartment. Otherwise, rents could surge past what I could afford any day, as wages rarely keep pace with rents.
  - thrwy_ywrht 5y ago
    Rent controlled apartments are great for people who live in them. They are less good for everyone else.
    - 88913527 5y ago
      Fixed mortgage payments are also great for the people who live in them. They are less good for everyone else too.
      - next_xibalba 5y ago
        How are they less good for everyone else? Or, put another way, how would a variable mortgage payment work and how would it benefit non-mortgage holders?
        jen20 5y ago
        The UK typically has variable mortgages. They don’t benefit non mortgage holders unless you make some serious contortions.
        88913527 5y ago
        Because if housing gets too expensive in some area, you'd leave and that'd open up supply. By locking in the price, future changes in demand are irrelevant to you -- but place great pressure on newcomers to your area. It's economically inefficient for Grandma to continue living in Palo Alto in a $4 million home when that land could instead have a multi-family housing complex to support the demand for workers in the region. It'd be the same story for someone who's in rent-controlled housing for $400/mo but the equivalent market rate is $3500. It's inefficient. If we're saying rent control has externalities, we need to acknowledge that any scheme that fixes your housing cost has the same effect.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  This isn't healthy in any relationship. Eventually you're going to want or need to move, and the landlord is going to be pissed to discover on move-out inspection that you haven't been keeping them apprised of the condition of the property. A simple "hey, this happened; I'm not worried about it if you're not" email suffices.
  - xwdv 5y ago
    You bring these things to their attention when you’re about to move out and tell them they just happened and are one of the factors on why you are deciding not to renew.
  - onenukecourse 5y ago
    I agree, but the tenant seems to believe the landlord will retaliate instead of being thankful. In my contracts I make it crystal clear the tenants have a responsibility to inform me ASAP about any water issues. However, I also try to be a very understanding landlord.
- onenukecourse 5y ago
  As a landlord, I insist you look to move. You're being abused. If your local landlords are more or less the same, move. You're in an abusive city. As a landlord: 1. I insist any small problems are brought to my attentions ASAP. Early repairs cost less and dealing with it promptly creates good will 2. I get the place professionally cleaned before move in. It only costs me $150 (a hard working cleaner can clean an empty unit in a three/four hours) 3. I provide a full set of cleaning supplies when tenants move in. The supplies are already there so use them ;) 4. I give a $50 gift card to Target midway through the contract. What are you going to buy at Target? Hopefully, cleaning supplies ;) A decent landlord won't mind if you break a lease if you've stayed there long enough (more than eight months). Even if you do, it should not be more than two month's rent. I charge a bit below market rate to ensure the unit is always rented (divide a month by 12. An empty unit costs money). However, I target professionals to avoid problems (students), but not rich professionals - I once rented the two bedroom unit to a pair of recently graduated nurses. I'm not in the business of making friends. I'm in the business of having a cordial relationship with a client who is satisfied and keeps renewing. A missed renewal costs me a lot of money. My goal is that my tenants move out only if they move out of the city or decide to buy a place.
  - twalla 5y ago
    > I target professionals to avoid problems (students), but not rich professionals Can you go into more detail here? I've heard this before that having too high of an income can count against you as a tenant - presumably because the tenant has the wherewithal to make the landlord's life unpleasant if they really felt like it.
    - onenukecourse 5y ago
      I don't avoid very high income earners, it's just that the unit I'm renting is a small house I could afford to live in at the time I bought it. This unit naturally fits a certain, soon to be upper middle income young family. However, I'm currently renting the units to a couple who just moved into the city that each makes more than what my wife and I make. My biggest concern with them was that they'd only want to rent for a few months to get to know the city before buying a place of their own. A missed renewal is very expensive (lost income) and time consuming.
- coward123 5y ago
  FWIW: There are plenty of landlords in the world who are willing to keep rents down in order to keep a good tenant, IE: you take good care of the property and pay on time. On the other hand, if they decide to up your rent over a leaky faucet, then it was only a matter of time anyway.
  - caymanjim 5y ago
    I rent an off-season house every winter in a summer beach town. My rent is so low it's almost free. The landlord just likes having someone around who will keep an eye on the place. It's better for the house to keep it heated all winter (I pay the utilities), the landlord doesn't have to worry as much about break-ins (uncommon around here anyway), and doesn't have to find someone to check for storm damage while she's down in Florida for the winter. Sucks moving twice a year and having to find summer housing, but in return I get a three-bedroom house for less than the local studio apartment rate, and the landlord covers the property tax bill and gets peace of mind.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  As a landlord: this would cause me to evict you as soon as possible. Do not hide broken things from me. Something small now is going to become extremely expensive later.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    Ho ho, but how are you going to find the small broken things and evict me if I don't tell you about them? Check the place while I'm work? Good luck! As usual with any apartment I've moved into, the first thing I've done is change the locks, then installed pit traps, claymore mines, swinging blades, pressure plates that trigger huge rolling boulders, etc.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bloodyplonker22 5y ago
Yes, but if you're a landlord and you really want to make a higher return on your rental property, you have to delve into the depths of renting to "trouble tenants" because the property price to rent ratio is much better.
paulsutter 5y ago
Higher-end properties will have fewer problems. However a too-high rent for a given property also means more trouble. This is similar to the observation that larger species live longer, but larger individuals of a given species live shorter lives.
Spooky23 5y ago
But… you want those trouble free tenants, you need to do your job. Which is a problem for many landlords. The guy who rents the house next door to mine decided that lawn care was too much work, so he spread and wet leaves for the express purpose of killing the lawn. Winter is over and he is now surprised that his surgeon tenant doesn’t want to live in a house that appears derlict.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- JetAlone 5y ago
  If I were in his shoes I'd go for some decent-to-nice artificial grass. Sure maybe it's a little tacky, but it beats the derelict look and it spares the work he doesn't wanna do.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ziml77 5y ago
  I had to read that 6 times to understand. Why the hell do we use the word "rent" for both sides of renting?
spamizbad 5y ago
A while back in our neighborhood group a landlord posted a unit for rent mandating a 750+ credit score. Half the comments were like "Uhhh... if your score is this high you should get a mortgage. Rates were historically low at the time of the post. Keep in mind this was in a non-trendy neighborhood in Chicago, not NYC or SF. We are clearly not building enough housing.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  Over 40% of US consumers have a FICO of 750 or higher. Here's where American consumers stand as of the most recent (April 2017) data: [1] FICO score range % of U.S. consumers 800-850 20.7% 750-799 19% 700-749 17.1% 650-699 13.2% 600-649 10% 550-599 8.5% 500-549 6.8% 300-499 4.7% [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/09/30/heres-what-americans-fico-scores-look-like-how-do-you-compare/106069936/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/09...
akhmatova 5y ago
Having been on both sides of the equation myself, my observation is: Trouble from landlords varies inversely with the square of well-crafted (and robustly enforced) tenant protection legislation.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tluyben2 5y ago
Exactly; I prefer rich expats who (or their company) pay multiples of the average rental price for that reason. They don’t complain, pay on time and usually even fix stuff themselves (for free) as they don’t want to wait for anything. And there seems to be an abundance of these people currently as well.

drBonkers 5y ago

tenant_trouble ∝ 1/rent²

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

sbierwagen 5y ago

Annoying "well actually" counterexample: my rent hasn't kept up with inflation, and I'm doing everything possible to avoid coming to the notice of my landlord. A call about a leaky faucet could cost me an additional six thousand dollars a year.

KeepFlying 5y ago
You've described my situation too, though it's not a rent increase I'm worried about, it's the installation of a mandatory smart lock that I've somehow avoided for a few months now.
- vsareto 5y ago
  I signed a lease which specifically stated that I was responsible for providing the internet for the smart locks and devices within the apartment. I brought this up to them, but they said "Nah, you don't have to do that" and wouldn't remove it from the lease. They were correct though: everything functioned before I had internet and I never had to join them to my network, but it made me think about the rest of the stuff in the very legally binding lease that worked similarly.
- safsfaas 5y ago
  Why do you not want a smart lock? As a renter I wouldn't like it too, I would think why does the landlord need to know when I go/come to the house. But as a landlord I use smart lock and the need is different, its useful because I don't have to change locks every time a get a new renter, I just change the codes (specially if I consider doing short term rentals/airbnb at some point/season) and I don't have to worry about any spare copies of the keys made by the renters. Generally smart locks, in my experience, need internet to change codes without having to be physically present, not for lock/unlock functionality.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    > its useful because I don't have to change locks every time a get a new renter, I just change the codes (specially if I consider doing short term rentals/airbnb at some point/season) and I don't have to worry about any spare copies of the keys made by the renters. Is that something that people generally worry about? I’m pretty sure none of the rentals I’ve lived in over the past decade had the locks changed between tenants.
    - stu2b50 5y ago
      If it’s not, it should be, if nothing else then for the safety of your next tenant.
      - ComputerGuru 5y ago
        It (like everything else to do with renting) depends on the socioeconomic demographics of your renters.
    - hluska 5y ago
      I live in a remarkably shitty, crime ridden city and having locks changed is a standard part of rental contracts. It’s so standard that every August, our local papers’ “student guides” suggest that new renters ask about having locks changed. Knowing what I know now, I’d actually leave a city if I saw that term in a contract.
    - 5y ago
asdff 5y ago
This is why I'm thankful for my rent controlled apartment. No surprises down the road at all with rent increases being capped to something reasonable; as long as I continue holding a job I can pretty much always afford this apartment. Otherwise, rents could surge past what I could afford any day, as wages rarely keep pace with rents.
- thrwy_ywrht 5y ago
  Rent controlled apartments are great for people who live in them. They are less good for everyone else.
  - 88913527 5y ago
    Fixed mortgage payments are also great for the people who live in them. They are less good for everyone else too.
    - next_xibalba 5y ago
      How are they less good for everyone else? Or, put another way, how would a variable mortgage payment work and how would it benefit non-mortgage holders?
      - jen20 5y ago
        The UK typically has variable mortgages. They don’t benefit non mortgage holders unless you make some serious contortions.
      - 88913527 5y ago
        Because if housing gets too expensive in some area, you'd leave and that'd open up supply. By locking in the price, future changes in demand are irrelevant to you -- but place great pressure on newcomers to your area. It's economically inefficient for Grandma to continue living in Palo Alto in a $4 million home when that land could instead have a multi-family housing complex to support the demand for workers in the region. It'd be the same story for someone who's in rent-controlled housing for $400/mo but the equivalent market rate is $3500. It's inefficient. If we're saying rent control has externalities, we need to acknowledge that any scheme that fixes your housing cost has the same effect.
KennyBlanken 5y ago
This isn't healthy in any relationship. Eventually you're going to want or need to move, and the landlord is going to be pissed to discover on move-out inspection that you haven't been keeping them apprised of the condition of the property. A simple "hey, this happened; I'm not worried about it if you're not" email suffices.
- xwdv 5y ago
  You bring these things to their attention when you’re about to move out and tell them they just happened and are one of the factors on why you are deciding not to renew.
- onenukecourse 5y ago
  I agree, but the tenant seems to believe the landlord will retaliate instead of being thankful. In my contracts I make it crystal clear the tenants have a responsibility to inform me ASAP about any water issues. However, I also try to be a very understanding landlord.
onenukecourse 5y ago
As a landlord, I insist you look to move. You're being abused. If your local landlords are more or less the same, move. You're in an abusive city. As a landlord: 1. I insist any small problems are brought to my attentions ASAP. Early repairs cost less and dealing with it promptly creates good will 2. I get the place professionally cleaned before move in. It only costs me $150 (a hard working cleaner can clean an empty unit in a three/four hours) 3. I provide a full set of cleaning supplies when tenants move in. The supplies are already there so use them ;) 4. I give a $50 gift card to Target midway through the contract. What are you going to buy at Target? Hopefully, cleaning supplies ;) A decent landlord won't mind if you break a lease if you've stayed there long enough (more than eight months). Even if you do, it should not be more than two month's rent. I charge a bit below market rate to ensure the unit is always rented (divide a month by 12. An empty unit costs money). However, I target professionals to avoid problems (students), but not rich professionals - I once rented the two bedroom unit to a pair of recently graduated nurses. I'm not in the business of making friends. I'm in the business of having a cordial relationship with a client who is satisfied and keeps renewing. A missed renewal costs me a lot of money. My goal is that my tenants move out only if they move out of the city or decide to buy a place.
- twalla 5y ago
  > I target professionals to avoid problems (students), but not rich professionals Can you go into more detail here? I've heard this before that having too high of an income can count against you as a tenant - presumably because the tenant has the wherewithal to make the landlord's life unpleasant if they really felt like it.
  - onenukecourse 5y ago
    I don't avoid very high income earners, it's just that the unit I'm renting is a small house I could afford to live in at the time I bought it. This unit naturally fits a certain, soon to be upper middle income young family. However, I'm currently renting the units to a couple who just moved into the city that each makes more than what my wife and I make. My biggest concern with them was that they'd only want to rent for a few months to get to know the city before buying a place of their own. A missed renewal is very expensive (lost income) and time consuming.
coward123 5y ago
FWIW: There are plenty of landlords in the world who are willing to keep rents down in order to keep a good tenant, IE: you take good care of the property and pay on time. On the other hand, if they decide to up your rent over a leaky faucet, then it was only a matter of time anyway.
- caymanjim 5y ago
  I rent an off-season house every winter in a summer beach town. My rent is so low it's almost free. The landlord just likes having someone around who will keep an eye on the place. It's better for the house to keep it heated all winter (I pay the utilities), the landlord doesn't have to worry as much about break-ins (uncommon around here anyway), and doesn't have to find someone to check for storm damage while she's down in Florida for the winter. Sucks moving twice a year and having to find summer housing, but in return I get a three-bedroom house for less than the local studio apartment rate, and the landlord covers the property tax bill and gets peace of mind.
thepasswordis 5y ago
As a landlord: this would cause me to evict you as soon as possible. Do not hide broken things from me. Something small now is going to become extremely expensive later.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  Ho ho, but how are you going to find the small broken things and evict me if I don't tell you about them? Check the place while I'm work? Good luck! As usual with any apartment I've moved into, the first thing I've done is change the locks, then installed pit traps, claymore mines, swinging blades, pressure plates that trigger huge rolling boulders, etc.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bloodyplonker22 5y ago

Yes, but if you're a landlord and you really want to make a higher return on your rental property, you have to delve into the depths of renting to "trouble tenants" because the property price to rent ratio is much better.

paulsutter 5y ago

Higher-end properties will have fewer problems. However a too-high rent for a given property also means more trouble. This is similar to the observation that larger species live longer, but larger individuals of a given species live shorter lives.

Spooky23 5y ago

But… you want those trouble free tenants, you need to do your job. Which is a problem for many landlords. The guy who rents the house next door to mine decided that lawn care was too much work, so he spread and wet leaves for the express purpose of killing the lawn. Winter is over and he is now surprised that his surgeon tenant doesn’t want to live in a house that appears derlict.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
JetAlone 5y ago
If I were in his shoes I'd go for some decent-to-nice artificial grass. Sure maybe it's a little tacky, but it beats the derelict look and it spares the work he doesn't wanna do.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ziml77 5y ago
I had to read that 6 times to understand. Why the hell do we use the word "rent" for both sides of renting?

spamizbad 5y ago

A while back in our neighborhood group a landlord posted a unit for rent mandating a 750+ credit score. Half the comments were like "Uhhh... if your score is this high you should get a mortgage. Rates were historically low at the time of the post. Keep in mind this was in a non-trendy neighborhood in Chicago, not NYC or SF. We are clearly not building enough housing.

IncRnd 5y ago
Over 40% of US consumers have a FICO of 750 or higher. Here's where American consumers stand as of the most recent (April 2017) data: [1] FICO score range % of U.S. consumers 800-850 20.7% 750-799 19% 700-749 17.1% 650-699 13.2% 600-649 10% 550-599 8.5% 500-549 6.8% 300-499 4.7% [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/09/30/heres-what-americans-fico-scores-look-like-how-do-you-compare/106069936/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2017/09...

akhmatova 5y ago

Having been on both sides of the equation myself, my observation is: Trouble from landlords varies inversely with the square of well-crafted (and robustly enforced) tenant protection legislation.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tluyben2 5y ago

Exactly; I prefer rich expats who (or their company) pay multiples of the average rental price for that reason. They don’t complain, pay on time and usually even fix stuff themselves (for free) as they don’t want to wait for anything. And there seems to be an abundance of these people currently as well.