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Hideous victim blaming mentality here.

by warent 5y ago

cinntaile 5y ago
I'm not blaming someone for getting scammed, that's on the scammer. But I am blaming someone for ruining their own life if they put more money into a speculative, highly risky asset than they can lose. This isn't confined to crypto, it can also be regular stocks or other investments. I mean this in a general sense. I don't mean people taking advantage of people that aren't in the right state of mind (for whatever reason) to be clear, of course I don't put the blame on those people.
- mrmuagi 5y ago
  Not sure why you got such a negative reaction. This is basic 101 holding a investment portfolio (I hope I have it right [1]), the more all in the upper right (higher std dev) of this graph, the higher risk, the more bananas you'll lose in your basket if things go, proverbially, tits up. Diversifying is a tool/shield against this by minimizing risk against reward. [1] https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640 https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    Crypto is a touchy subject here, so if I am a bit harsh on the people that ruined their lives by putting all their eggs in one crypto basket... I was prepared for it not to go well. Although I think some misunderstood my comment as blaming the victim, which was not what I meant. But that's ok, I'll try to phrase it better next time.
- Uehreka 5y ago
  When we raise concerns about crypto’s riskyness, people like you show up and say “investment involves risk” and frame crypto as a speculative investment. Then when you’re gone someone else will show up hyping Bitcoin/Ethereum as a currency that will change the world, which implies that it is or will be stable enough to use to pay for goods and services (as opposed to being a vehicle for speculation). Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    > Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all. If only the world were such a simple place where there is only one right and one wrong answer.
    - Uehreka 5y ago
      If folks are making the argument that risky speculative investments can be used as currency for day-to-day purchases, that’s an argument I’d hear out, but I feel like it would be a difficult argument to make. And for the record, the argument I’m perceiving from you (“crypto is a speculative investment, invest carefully, enjoy it if you win”) is the closest to reality of all of these arguments IMO. But I do also believe that highly speculative things like this make for bad day-to-day currencies, and have not yet been convinced otherwise.
mrmuagi 5y ago
I am torn. If someone is holding a "ruining peoples lives" chunk in their portfolio, it's not a diversified one -- and it leads to a good life lesson. And if ones all in the stock market and it crashes -- surely you should not victim blame, because there is a road to redemption (just weather the storm), and it's really not their fault. Nobody can predict wether the number goes up or down reliably in the short term, yada yada. However given the nature of crypto landscape wrt. scams, attacks, takeovers, thefts, I can't help but say "buyer beware" and "it's a wild wild west out here". I mean, you must agree it is good advice in hindsight to not hold all your eggs in one basket in this case. I do.

Hideous victim blaming mentality here.

by warent 5y ago

Hideous victim blaming mentality here.

I'm not blaming someone for getting scammed, that's on the scammer. But I am blaming someone for ruining their own life if they put more money into a speculative, highly risky asset than they can lose. This isn't confined to crypto, it can also be regular stocks or other investments. I mean this in a general sense. I don't mean people taking advantage of people that aren't in the right state of mind (for whatever reason) to be clear, of course I don't put the blame on those people.

mrmuagi 5y ago
Not sure why you got such a negative reaction. This is basic 101 holding a investment portfolio (I hope I have it right [1]), the more all in the upper right (higher std dev) of this graph, the higher risk, the more bananas you'll lose in your basket if things go, proverbially, tits up. Diversifying is a tool/shield against this by minimizing risk against reward. [1] https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640 https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640
- cinntaile 5y ago
  Crypto is a touchy subject here, so if I am a bit harsh on the people that ruined their lives by putting all their eggs in one crypto basket... I was prepared for it not to go well. Although I think some misunderstood my comment as blaming the victim, which was not what I meant. But that's ok, I'll try to phrase it better next time.
Uehreka 5y ago
When we raise concerns about crypto’s riskyness, people like you show up and say “investment involves risk” and frame crypto as a speculative investment. Then when you’re gone someone else will show up hyping Bitcoin/Ethereum as a currency that will change the world, which implies that it is or will be stable enough to use to pay for goods and services (as opposed to being a vehicle for speculation). Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  > Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all. If only the world were such a simple place where there is only one right and one wrong answer.
  - Uehreka 5y ago
    If folks are making the argument that risky speculative investments can be used as currency for day-to-day purchases, that’s an argument I’d hear out, but I feel like it would be a difficult argument to make. And for the record, the argument I’m perceiving from you (“crypto is a speculative investment, invest carefully, enjoy it if you win”) is the closest to reality of all of these arguments IMO. But I do also believe that highly speculative things like this make for bad day-to-day currencies, and have not yet been convinced otherwise.

mrmuagi 5y ago

I am torn. If someone is holding a "ruining peoples lives" chunk in their portfolio, it's not a diversified one -- and it leads to a good life lesson. And if ones all in the stock market and it crashes -- surely you should not victim blame, because there is a road to redemption (just weather the storm), and it's really not their fault. Nobody can predict wether the number goes up or down reliably in the short term, yada yada. However given the nature of crypto landscape wrt. scams, attacks, takeovers, thefts, I can't help but say "buyer beware" and "it's a wild wild west out here". I mean, you must agree it is good advice in hindsight to not hold all your eggs in one basket in this case. I do.