4 ms·

> You are building systems that are ruining peoples lives and making things worse for everyone. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose, it's the basis o

> You are building systems that are ruining peoples lives and making things worse for everyone. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose, it's the basis of any investment strategy. If someone puts enough money into highly risky, speculative assets such as these that it would ruin their life, then they only have themselves to blame if you ask me... People have to take responsibility for their own choices. Edit: -4 that's a new record for me, thanks guys!

warent 5y ago
Hideous victim blaming mentality here.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  I'm not blaming someone for getting scammed, that's on the scammer. But I am blaming someone for ruining their own life if they put more money into a speculative, highly risky asset than they can lose. This isn't confined to crypto, it can also be regular stocks or other investments. I mean this in a general sense. I don't mean people taking advantage of people that aren't in the right state of mind (for whatever reason) to be clear, of course I don't put the blame on those people.
  - mrmuagi 5y ago
    Not sure why you got such a negative reaction. This is basic 101 holding a investment portfolio (I hope I have it right [1]), the more all in the upper right (higher std dev) of this graph, the higher risk, the more bananas you'll lose in your basket if things go, proverbially, tits up. Diversifying is a tool/shield against this by minimizing risk against reward. [1] https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640 https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640
    - cinntaile 5y ago
      Crypto is a touchy subject here, so if I am a bit harsh on the people that ruined their lives by putting all their eggs in one crypto basket... I was prepared for it not to go well. Although I think some misunderstood my comment as blaming the victim, which was not what I meant. But that's ok, I'll try to phrase it better next time.
  - Uehreka 5y ago
    When we raise concerns about crypto’s riskyness, people like you show up and say “investment involves risk” and frame crypto as a speculative investment. Then when you’re gone someone else will show up hyping Bitcoin/Ethereum as a currency that will change the world, which implies that it is or will be stable enough to use to pay for goods and services (as opposed to being a vehicle for speculation). Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all.
    - cinntaile 5y ago
      > Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all. If only the world were such a simple place where there is only one right and one wrong answer.
      - Uehreka 5y ago
        If folks are making the argument that risky speculative investments can be used as currency for day-to-day purchases, that’s an argument I’d hear out, but I feel like it would be a difficult argument to make. And for the record, the argument I’m perceiving from you (“crypto is a speculative investment, invest carefully, enjoy it if you win”) is the closest to reality of all of these arguments IMO. But I do also believe that highly speculative things like this make for bad day-to-day currencies, and have not yet been convinced otherwise.
- mrmuagi 5y ago
  I am torn. If someone is holding a "ruining peoples lives" chunk in their portfolio, it's not a diversified one -- and it leads to a good life lesson. And if ones all in the stock market and it crashes -- surely you should not victim blame, because there is a road to redemption (just weather the storm), and it's really not their fault. Nobody can predict wether the number goes up or down reliably in the short term, yada yada. However given the nature of crypto landscape wrt. scams, attacks, takeovers, thefts, I can't help but say "buyer beware" and "it's a wild wild west out here". I mean, you must agree it is good advice in hindsight to not hold all your eggs in one basket in this case. I do.
ejb999 5y ago
Its not really supposed to be an 'investment' - anymore than the dollar is an investment? If crypto wants to replace dollars, they are going to have to do better than this. Would you tell someone who's dollars are stolen 'don't have more dollars than you can afford to lose'?
- cinntaile 5y ago
  I think Axie Infinity is some sort of NFT game? How is that going to replace the dollar?
  - kemotep 5y ago
    The article covers that it was Ethereum that was stolen. On the surface it appears none of the Axie Infinity based tokens were touched.
    - AustinDev 5y ago
      Because ETH has much more intrinsic value than AXS and the other tokens created by Axie Infinity. Why would they bother with pennies when they can take 100 dollar bills? AXS's value is derived from a pseudo-feudalistic share cropping model called 'play to earn'. People in low income countries put up their real assets to borrow AXS tokens and NFT's to play the game to earn an income and farm items to sell to western players who can't spend all day grinding. Imagine if Blizzard designed WoW's monetization around exploiting all the Gold farmers?
headmelted 5y ago
Your response assumes the only victims are the people holding the bags, but its key feature is that it facilitates organised crime more effectively than anything in history. Now with that said, someone may respond to mention that it’s key feature is actually [a store of value/decentralised digital money/new gold etc] and that person will be wrong.
- thinkmassive 5y ago
  > The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2019, criminal activity represented 2.1% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume (roughly $21.4 billion worth of transfers). In 2020, the criminal share of all cryptocurrency activity fell to just 0.34% ($10.0 billion in transaction volume). https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-false-narrative-of-bitcoins-role-in-illicit-activity https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-fal...
bigtex88 5y ago
Sorry you're getting so downvoted. Not surprising on HN. Somehow super-anti crypto, even though people here seemingly understand technology.
- FabHK 5y ago
  Has it occurred to you that this might be not "even though people here seemingly understand technology", but because people here understand the technology?

warent 5y ago

Hideous victim blaming mentality here.

cinntaile 5y ago
I'm not blaming someone for getting scammed, that's on the scammer. But I am blaming someone for ruining their own life if they put more money into a speculative, highly risky asset than they can lose. This isn't confined to crypto, it can also be regular stocks or other investments. I mean this in a general sense. I don't mean people taking advantage of people that aren't in the right state of mind (for whatever reason) to be clear, of course I don't put the blame on those people.
- mrmuagi 5y ago
  Not sure why you got such a negative reaction. This is basic 101 holding a investment portfolio (I hope I have it right [1]), the more all in the upper right (higher std dev) of this graph, the higher risk, the more bananas you'll lose in your basket if things go, proverbially, tits up. Diversifying is a tool/shield against this by minimizing risk against reward. [1] https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640 https://youtu.be/8TJQhQ2GZ0Y?t=1640
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    Crypto is a touchy subject here, so if I am a bit harsh on the people that ruined their lives by putting all their eggs in one crypto basket... I was prepared for it not to go well. Although I think some misunderstood my comment as blaming the victim, which was not what I meant. But that's ok, I'll try to phrase it better next time.
- Uehreka 5y ago
  When we raise concerns about crypto’s riskyness, people like you show up and say “investment involves risk” and frame crypto as a speculative investment. Then when you’re gone someone else will show up hyping Bitcoin/Ethereum as a currency that will change the world, which implies that it is or will be stable enough to use to pay for goods and services (as opposed to being a vehicle for speculation). Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    > Our frustration stems from our inability to get both of you in the same room to duke it out once and for all. If only the world were such a simple place where there is only one right and one wrong answer.
    - Uehreka 5y ago
      If folks are making the argument that risky speculative investments can be used as currency for day-to-day purchases, that’s an argument I’d hear out, but I feel like it would be a difficult argument to make. And for the record, the argument I’m perceiving from you (“crypto is a speculative investment, invest carefully, enjoy it if you win”) is the closest to reality of all of these arguments IMO. But I do also believe that highly speculative things like this make for bad day-to-day currencies, and have not yet been convinced otherwise.
mrmuagi 5y ago
I am torn. If someone is holding a "ruining peoples lives" chunk in their portfolio, it's not a diversified one -- and it leads to a good life lesson. And if ones all in the stock market and it crashes -- surely you should not victim blame, because there is a road to redemption (just weather the storm), and it's really not their fault. Nobody can predict wether the number goes up or down reliably in the short term, yada yada. However given the nature of crypto landscape wrt. scams, attacks, takeovers, thefts, I can't help but say "buyer beware" and "it's a wild wild west out here". I mean, you must agree it is good advice in hindsight to not hold all your eggs in one basket in this case. I do.

ejb999 5y ago

Its not really supposed to be an 'investment' - anymore than the dollar is an investment? If crypto wants to replace dollars, they are going to have to do better than this. Would you tell someone who's dollars are stolen 'don't have more dollars than you can afford to lose'?

cinntaile 5y ago
I think Axie Infinity is some sort of NFT game? How is that going to replace the dollar?
- kemotep 5y ago
  The article covers that it was Ethereum that was stolen. On the surface it appears none of the Axie Infinity based tokens were touched.
  - AustinDev 5y ago
    Because ETH has much more intrinsic value than AXS and the other tokens created by Axie Infinity. Why would they bother with pennies when they can take 100 dollar bills? AXS's value is derived from a pseudo-feudalistic share cropping model called 'play to earn'. People in low income countries put up their real assets to borrow AXS tokens and NFT's to play the game to earn an income and farm items to sell to western players who can't spend all day grinding. Imagine if Blizzard designed WoW's monetization around exploiting all the Gold farmers?

headmelted 5y ago

Your response assumes the only victims are the people holding the bags, but its key feature is that it facilitates organised crime more effectively than anything in history. Now with that said, someone may respond to mention that it’s key feature is actually [a store of value/decentralised digital money/new gold etc] and that person will be wrong.

thinkmassive 5y ago
> The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2019, criminal activity represented 2.1% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume (roughly $21.4 billion worth of transfers). In 2020, the criminal share of all cryptocurrency activity fell to just 0.34% ($10.0 billion in transaction volume). https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-false-narrative-of-bitcoins-role-in-illicit-activity https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-fal...

bigtex88 5y ago

Sorry you're getting so downvoted. Not surprising on HN. Somehow super-anti crypto, even though people here seemingly understand technology.

FabHK 5y ago
Has it occurred to you that this might be not "even though people here seemingly understand technology", but because people here understand the technology?