5 ms·

Faking a warrant is a felony, perhaps even a federal one that would get the FBI involved I assume. You'd have to forge an official court document, forge a sign

Faking a warrant is a felony, perhaps even a federal one that would get the FBI involved I assume. You'd have to forge an official court document, forge a signature of a judge, etc. That has _serious_ consequences and prison time vs. faking a "data request" that might be entirely digital with no physical document or signatures, etc. Not saying it can't happen or won't happen, but a criminal has to be seriously determined and ready to risk a long prison sentence to fake a warrant.

macksd 5y ago
I feel like I've been seeing a lot of comments lately to the effect of, "no - that would be illegal!" Yeah, we are talking about criminals who are already breaking one law. Often criminals who, in the very nature of their crime, are hard to identify. But then, even if they're not overtly breaking the law with a simple request for information, debt collectors and car warranty salesman are notorious for sending letters that will imply they are your financial institution, the letter was sent by your account manager, etc. IRS impersonators will tell people that jail time is imminent. I can imagine someone could create something that looks to a non-lawyer (who's afraid and not paying attention) like it's basically warrant signed by someone who's basically a judge, but just doesn't outright say that. You'd still need to verify - hey is this person actually a judge, and did this person actually sign that as a warrant?
- qbasic_forever 5y ago
  Yes, which is why just set the bar at responding to any request for any data with "Sorry we do not respond to requests for data that aren't court ordered warrants. Please come back with a warrant we can verify." The problem here is that companies have a policy of trusting some government email address for little one-off, no warrant needed requests. Don't have that policy.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    > Please come back with a warrant we can verify The problem is that it might not be easy to verify a real warrant, but that’s not grounds for noncompliance.
  - macksd 5y ago
    >> Please come back with a warrant we can verify Ok. Now how do I verify one, assuming the information in this article is accurate?
    - qbasic_forever 5y ago
      You check the court records. These are easy to find with a digital records search, or you call the court clerk. The phone number is listed on the warrant. This is not hard, but it's not an automated process by design.
      - account42 5y ago
        > The phone number is listed on the warrant. You should not rely on any information on the document you want to verify - look it up yourself.
verve_rat 5y ago
From the end of the article: “Forged court orders, usually involving copy-and-pasted signatures of judges, have been used to authorize illegal wiretaps and fraudulently take down legitimate reviews and websites by those seeking to conceal negative information and past crimes,” the lawmakers said in a statement introducing their bill. The Digital Authenticity for Court Orders Act would require federal, state and tribal courts to use a digital signature for orders authorizing surveillance, domain seizures and removal of online content. So yes, people are faking court documents.
netizen-936824 5y ago
Ah yes, the good old "just make crime illegal" Do people honestly think that's a deterrent for people already committing felonies?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
supercheetah 5y ago
Most criminals aren't thinking about any of that at all. Either they're so goal focused, any possible punishments don't even cross their mind, or they think they're clever enough to not have to worry about it.

macksd 5y ago

I feel like I've been seeing a lot of comments lately to the effect of, "no - that would be illegal!" Yeah, we are talking about criminals who are already breaking one law. Often criminals who, in the very nature of their crime, are hard to identify. But then, even if they're not overtly breaking the law with a simple request for information, debt collectors and car warranty salesman are notorious for sending letters that will imply they are your financial institution, the letter was sent by your account manager, etc. IRS impersonators will tell people that jail time is imminent. I can imagine someone could create something that looks to a non-lawyer (who's afraid and not paying attention) like it's basically warrant signed by someone who's basically a judge, but just doesn't outright say that. You'd still need to verify - hey is this person actually a judge, and did this person actually sign that as a warrant?

qbasic_forever 5y ago
Yes, which is why just set the bar at responding to any request for any data with "Sorry we do not respond to requests for data that aren't court ordered warrants. Please come back with a warrant we can verify." The problem here is that companies have a policy of trusting some government email address for little one-off, no warrant needed requests. Don't have that policy.
- rosndo 5y ago
  > Please come back with a warrant we can verify The problem is that it might not be easy to verify a real warrant, but that’s not grounds for noncompliance.
- macksd 5y ago
  >> Please come back with a warrant we can verify Ok. Now how do I verify one, assuming the information in this article is accurate?
  - qbasic_forever 5y ago
    You check the court records. These are easy to find with a digital records search, or you call the court clerk. The phone number is listed on the warrant. This is not hard, but it's not an automated process by design.
    - account42 5y ago
      > The phone number is listed on the warrant. You should not rely on any information on the document you want to verify - look it up yourself.

verve_rat 5y ago

From the end of the article: “Forged court orders, usually involving copy-and-pasted signatures of judges, have been used to authorize illegal wiretaps and fraudulently take down legitimate reviews and websites by those seeking to conceal negative information and past crimes,” the lawmakers said in a statement introducing their bill. The Digital Authenticity for Court Orders Act would require federal, state and tribal courts to use a digital signature for orders authorizing surveillance, domain seizures and removal of online content. So yes, people are faking court documents.

netizen-936824 5y ago

Ah yes, the good old "just make crime illegal" Do people honestly think that's a deterrent for people already committing felonies?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

supercheetah 5y ago

Most criminals aren't thinking about any of that at all. Either they're so goal focused, any possible punishments don't even cross their mind, or they think they're clever enough to not have to worry about it.