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So can microsoft, adobe, google, etc. Even without them, NSA can intercept the hardware and put their software on those boxes... wikileaks showed a bunch of stu

So can microsoft, adobe, google, etc. Even without them, NSA can intercept the hardware and put their software on those boxes... wikileaks showed a bunch of stuff NSA did. If you're a valuable target, it's basically choosing if you want to be spied on by the russians or the americans. (or installing linux, and hoping for the best).

TaylorAlexander 5y ago
This is true, tho installing linux is probably not going to make a difference if you are a target. But the USA can issue national security letters through the FISA court with gag orders that keep the NSL secret. Not only that, but the major US companies have lucrative government contracts such that it can be in their interest to provide the US government with certain kinds of access without being compelled through national security letters.
kbenson 5y ago
> So can microsoft, adobe, google, etc. Even without them, NSA can intercept the hardware and put their software on those boxes... Those companies often actually have people scan the hardware they receive to check for alterations. There was a whole thing about this a decade ago where a reporter (wrongly, IIRC) accused Facebook and Google of having compromised motherboards, and people from those companies were commenting here about how they are actually very careful with their supply lines and have people vet what they receive with scanning electron microscopes in some instances. (I'll try to find some of the submissions here and edit them as links on the bottom shortly). I also have it on good authority (a good friend that worked at Google at the time) that Google found out that someone (the NSA) was tapping their inter-datacenter links and that's one of the reasons they made sure all data between datacenters was encrypted, and that was prior to the Snowden leaks. So yes, agencies are constantly attempting to infiltrate large tech companies for their own purposes. That doesn't mean they always succeed, or that those companies just give up and accept that it happens. They all fight it quite actively.
- rnk 5y ago
  That google thing is not really a secret. It was widely discussed inside google too. Maybe it came out of Edward Snowden.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  I was talking about google/apple being able to inject arbitrary code into (almost) any phone via (eg.) google play service update or whatever apple has. Also microsoft with windows update, and many other companies too.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    Do you have evidence that this happens due to outside or government interference in the company's release process? If not, this is just a conspiracy theory.
    - airtonix 5y ago
      They didn't claim that this happens because of government interference... -_- It's also not a theory.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    I was really referring to the part of your comment about the NSA's ability to intercept the hardware. It's true that any any software that allows auto-updating can be used to load arbitrary code onto a system, limited only by whatever additional safeguards are in place. In the case of the OS vendor, that can't really be guarded against, but it exists farther up the stack as well. Chrome and Firefox can just as easily load nefarious code onto your computer, limited only by what the OS prevents (which is generally more on a mobile platform, thankfully) and what their own reputation can sustain if they were found doing so.
at-fates-hands 5y ago
> Even without them, NSA can intercept the hardware and put their software on those boxes. Its interesting to note that not many people remember (maybe a generational thing?) Kevin Poulsen found multiple government listening devices installed on Pac Bell networks that were listening to foreign embassy phone traffic which was highly illegal at the time. It doesn't surprise me the extent the NSA and other three letter agencies have gone to get at information they deem valuable or important.
trasz 5y ago
Except that the statement being discussed isn’t targeted at people who are a target for NSA, but rather those that might be a target for Russia.

TaylorAlexander 5y ago

This is true, tho installing linux is probably not going to make a difference if you are a target. But the USA can issue national security letters through the FISA court with gag orders that keep the NSL secret. Not only that, but the major US companies have lucrative government contracts such that it can be in their interest to provide the US government with certain kinds of access without being compelled through national security letters.

kbenson 5y ago

> So can microsoft, adobe, google, etc. Even without them, NSA can intercept the hardware and put their software on those boxes... Those companies often actually have people scan the hardware they receive to check for alterations. There was a whole thing about this a decade ago where a reporter (wrongly, IIRC) accused Facebook and Google of having compromised motherboards, and people from those companies were commenting here about how they are actually very careful with their supply lines and have people vet what they receive with scanning electron microscopes in some instances. (I'll try to find some of the submissions here and edit them as links on the bottom shortly). I also have it on good authority (a good friend that worked at Google at the time) that Google found out that someone (the NSA) was tapping their inter-datacenter links and that's one of the reasons they made sure all data between datacenters was encrypted, and that was prior to the Snowden leaks. So yes, agencies are constantly attempting to infiltrate large tech companies for their own purposes. That doesn't mean they always succeed, or that those companies just give up and accept that it happens. They all fight it quite actively.

rnk 5y ago
That google thing is not really a secret. It was widely discussed inside google too. Maybe it came out of Edward Snowden.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
I was talking about google/apple being able to inject arbitrary code into (almost) any phone via (eg.) google play service update or whatever apple has. Also microsoft with windows update, and many other companies too.
- kelnos 5y ago
  Do you have evidence that this happens due to outside or government interference in the company's release process? If not, this is just a conspiracy theory.
  - airtonix 5y ago
    They didn't claim that this happens because of government interference... -_- It's also not a theory.
- kbenson 5y ago
  I was really referring to the part of your comment about the NSA's ability to intercept the hardware. It's true that any any software that allows auto-updating can be used to load arbitrary code onto a system, limited only by whatever additional safeguards are in place. In the case of the OS vendor, that can't really be guarded against, but it exists farther up the stack as well. Chrome and Firefox can just as easily load nefarious code onto your computer, limited only by what the OS prevents (which is generally more on a mobile platform, thankfully) and what their own reputation can sustain if they were found doing so.

at-fates-hands 5y ago

> Even without them, NSA can intercept the hardware and put their software on those boxes. Its interesting to note that not many people remember (maybe a generational thing?) Kevin Poulsen found multiple government listening devices installed on Pac Bell networks that were listening to foreign embassy phone traffic which was highly illegal at the time. It doesn't surprise me the extent the NSA and other three letter agencies have gone to get at information they deem valuable or important.

trasz 5y ago

Except that the statement being discussed isn’t targeted at people who are a target for NSA, but rather those that might be a target for Russia.