4 ms·

The credit card companies make so much money that reimbursing fraudulent transactions is almost a rounding error -- which is why they aren't in a rush to spend

by mikece 5y ago

The credit card companies make so much money that reimbursing fraudulent transactions is almost a rounding error -- which is why they aren't in a rush to spend the money to implement chip and PIN security. Given this attitude I'm guessing someone already ran the cost/benefit analysis of pivoting engineering teams to fix the opt-out website versus just paying a fine -- and that paying lawyers to contest any fine they might ever get came out on the winning side of the ledger.

Johnny555 5y ago
The credit card companies make so much money that reimbursing fraudulent transactions is almost a rounding error The credit card companies (i.e. Visa) don't reimburse fraud, they leave that to the issuing banks (i.e. Chase, Capital One, etc.... whoever you got your card from)
- anonymousiam 5y ago
  American Express handles their own fraud cases. Their cards are generally not issued by banks. I have no association with them other than being a card member since 1982, but their customer service is far better than Visa/MC, and yes, you can get a card from them with no annual fees + perks.
  - nxm 5y ago
    Unfortunately at a bigger cost to the merchant, which hurts in case of small businesses
    - starwind 5y ago
      AmEx has special rates small businesses can apply for that keep the credit card transaction fees pretty competitive
  - xxpor 5y ago
    The card is still issued by a bank, the bank is called American Express National Bank. Someone has to extend the actual credit.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    their customer service is far better than Visa/MC I used to think that (and maybe it was true once), but haven't found that to be the case, I've had far better experience from Chase for my Sapphire card. My wife recently ran into a problem with a booking through Amex's own travel service, the hotel said they had a reservation, but not payment, but we paid for the room at Amex travel. So we figured no problem, just pay the hotel directly (their rate was even lower than Amex) and call Amex to have them remove their charge. It took 5 calls over several days to finally talk to someone who could help, and it still took 3 days for the charge to be reversed. And this is for a Platinum card.
    - starwind 5y ago
      I've had problems with AmEx for travel issues but never problems for return protection or charge backs (except in one weird case but they fixed it like a year later). I do travel and dining on my Sapphire and everything else on my AmEx
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      IMO AmEx is still better than most banks, but my Chase card has definitely had better service in the past few years. Back in the day Discover had wonderful service, but I stopped carrying one because too many merchants wouldn't accept it.
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    Yes, but AmEx is vertically integrated, and they have 0 interest in shitting in their own backyard just to marginally increase the profit margin. Visa/MC can afford to just not care, because there’s always someone else who’ll pick up the tab. Which simply is not an option for AmEx.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Does anyone know what AmEx is doing wrt Russia?
    - Johnny555 5y ago
      Google knows: https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+amex+doing+wrt+russia https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+amex+doing+wrt+russi... American Express Suspends Operations in Russia and Belarus
derefr 5y ago
You say that as if it would be a CapEx-laden technological hurdle for Visa, MasterCard, etc. to implement chip-and-pin. But these same companies are already issuing 100% chip-and-pin (plus tap) cards in every market other than the US. If you want to blame anyone, blame the vendors of US ATMs and POS systems. Without their support, and a willingness to push through a deprecation/replacement of older hardware, chip-and-pin cards are pointless, because nothing reads them. (I would know, as a Canadian with a chip—and-pin card who frequently visits the US.)
- sbysb 5y ago
  This must be regional because I have been using a chip-and-pin card for the last 5 years and I cannot for the life of me remember the last time I had to physically swipe the card. Tap support is definitely still spotty but that is something that is more of a convenience than a security issue
  - dave5104 5y ago
    I also can't remember the last time I had to swipe a card where I am in the US. I also prefer using Apple Pay, and tbh, can't remember the last time I had to use my physical card.
    - twunde 5y ago
      It's still relatively common to have to swipe cards at gas stations in the US when you're buying gas. And a fair amount of the parking meters may still be on swipe (NYC meters outside of Manhattan come to mind). The places that haven't upgraded are ones with a lot of POS stations to upgrade.
      - jacobmartin 5y ago
        Yep these two places are very common to be swipe only. I have to go a human teller at <massive and famous hospital> to pay for parking and the cc machine will still only read swipes.
  - 5y ago

by mikece 5y ago

Johnny555 5y ago

The credit card companies make so much money that reimbursing fraudulent transactions is almost a rounding error The credit card companies (i.e. Visa) don't reimburse fraud, they leave that to the issuing banks (i.e. Chase, Capital One, etc.... whoever you got your card from)

anonymousiam 5y ago
American Express handles their own fraud cases. Their cards are generally not issued by banks. I have no association with them other than being a card member since 1982, but their customer service is far better than Visa/MC, and yes, you can get a card from them with no annual fees + perks.
- nxm 5y ago
  Unfortunately at a bigger cost to the merchant, which hurts in case of small businesses
  - starwind 5y ago
    AmEx has special rates small businesses can apply for that keep the credit card transaction fees pretty competitive
- xxpor 5y ago
  The card is still issued by a bank, the bank is called American Express National Bank. Someone has to extend the actual credit.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  their customer service is far better than Visa/MC I used to think that (and maybe it was true once), but haven't found that to be the case, I've had far better experience from Chase for my Sapphire card. My wife recently ran into a problem with a booking through Amex's own travel service, the hotel said they had a reservation, but not payment, but we paid for the room at Amex travel. So we figured no problem, just pay the hotel directly (their rate was even lower than Amex) and call Amex to have them remove their charge. It took 5 calls over several days to finally talk to someone who could help, and it still took 3 days for the charge to be reversed. And this is for a Platinum card.
  - starwind 5y ago
    I've had problems with AmEx for travel issues but never problems for return protection or charge backs (except in one weird case but they fixed it like a year later). I do travel and dining on my Sapphire and everything else on my AmEx
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    IMO AmEx is still better than most banks, but my Chase card has definitely had better service in the past few years. Back in the day Discover had wonderful service, but I stopped carrying one because too many merchants wouldn't accept it.
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  Yes, but AmEx is vertically integrated, and they have 0 interest in shitting in their own backyard just to marginally increase the profit margin. Visa/MC can afford to just not care, because there’s always someone else who’ll pick up the tab. Which simply is not an option for AmEx.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Does anyone know what AmEx is doing wrt Russia?
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    Google knows: https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+amex+doing+wrt+russia https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+amex+doing+wrt+russi... American Express Suspends Operations in Russia and Belarus

derefr 5y ago

You say that as if it would be a CapEx-laden technological hurdle for Visa, MasterCard, etc. to implement chip-and-pin. But these same companies are already issuing 100% chip-and-pin (plus tap) cards in every market other than the US. If you want to blame anyone, blame the vendors of US ATMs and POS systems. Without their support, and a willingness to push through a deprecation/replacement of older hardware, chip-and-pin cards are pointless, because nothing reads them. (I would know, as a Canadian with a chip—and-pin card who frequently visits the US.)

sbysb 5y ago
This must be regional because I have been using a chip-and-pin card for the last 5 years and I cannot for the life of me remember the last time I had to physically swipe the card. Tap support is definitely still spotty but that is something that is more of a convenience than a security issue
- dave5104 5y ago
  I also can't remember the last time I had to swipe a card where I am in the US. I also prefer using Apple Pay, and tbh, can't remember the last time I had to use my physical card.
  - twunde 5y ago
    It's still relatively common to have to swipe cards at gas stations in the US when you're buying gas. And a fair amount of the parking meters may still be on swipe (NYC meters outside of Manhattan come to mind). The places that haven't upgraded are ones with a lot of POS stations to upgrade.
    - jacobmartin 5y ago
      Yep these two places are very common to be swipe only. I have to go a human teller at <massive and famous hospital> to pay for parking and the cc machine will still only read swipes.
- 5y ago