4 ms·

This incident reinforces the rule never to use your debit card for credit card transactions.

nkozyra 5y ago
Absolutely do not use your debit card ... well, anywhere if you can help it. (Apologies, saw the wrong parent comment) How many utilities, credit card companies require a checking account for autopay? How many times have you thrown out an old checkbook that contains routing and account numbers on a carbon copy pages? Bank accounts are not especially secure, we mostly hope to limit the risk/reward calculation for hacking them and basic security controls.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > How many utilities, credit card companies require a checking account for autopay? In my experience, this is getting better! I now have all but one of my bills being paid by my credit card. Used to be that the utility companies made you pay extra and use a third party service if you wanted to use your credit card. Not all, though. Verizon, for example, will let you pay with a credit card, but they give a substantial discount if you use a debit card instead. For obvious reasons. I hope that does not become normal. I'm used to Verizon being scummy, I hope it doesn't become the default behavior for the other utilities I pay for.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    The US needs an automatic bill payment system with strong guarantees. In Britain, most people¹ pay bills (electricity, water, phone, internet, insurance, car loan, credit card etc) by "Direct Debit"². (Most European countries have a similar system with similar guarantees, but this one is described in English.) If anything should go wrong, the bank must fix it. There's a list of direct debits in the bank's interface, and they can be cancelled/suspended with one click (or by phoning or going to the bank). It isn't perfect (see 3 from two weeks ago) but that sort of problem is rare enough that it was reported in newspapers. ¹ "Direct Debits are used by nine in ten UK consumers to pay some or all of their regular bills". ² https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/DirectDebitGuarantee.aspx https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/Dir... ³ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/03/tsb-customers-double-charged-due-to-technical-error---here-s-wha/ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/03/tsb-customers...
Loughla 5y ago
Ever, never, never use your debit card where credit card can be used in its place. The mechanisms for restoring the charge on your credit card are much stronger than on your debit card. And a credit card is a FUTURE charge, so you have time to fix the problem. Whereas a debit card is your CURRENT money, so it's just gone unless you get it back. I do not understand why people use debit cards linked to their actual bank account out in the world. Paying bills securely through the utility is the only thing we use that for.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Agreed. I almost never use my debit card. And now, my wife doesn't either. Though her card got skimmed at an ATM, not during a debit card transaction, so this advice doesn't work. Now she just doesn't ever use ATMs. For better or worse, we now keep a few grand in the safe at home and pull from that for the occasional cash need. When I need to replenish that, I walk into the bank and take it out the old fashioned way. It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you...
- Hackbraten 5y ago
  I have stopped using credit cards for two reasons: 1. My debit cards allow me to directly import transactions into my personal accounting software while my credit cards don’t; and 2. when I shop online, my debit cards allow me to use them as a 2nd factor (using a USB card reader) while my credit cards require either an iOS or Android device for 2FA. You’re right in that a credit card is a future charge and debit isn’t. But are debit cards really so much more insecure? What threat model do you have in mind?
  - TylerE 5y ago
    If your credit card is compromised, you make a phone call and maybe can't use it for a few days. If your debit card gets compromised, your rent check bounces. Plus, frankly, banks are generally more protective of THIER money than YOUR money.
    - Hackbraten 5y ago

Absolutely do not use your debit card ... well, anywhere if you can help it. (Apologies, saw the wrong parent comment) How many utilities, credit card companies require a checking account for autopay? How many times have you thrown out an old checkbook that contains routing and account numbers on a carbon copy pages? Bank accounts are not especially secure, we mostly hope to limit the risk/reward calculation for hacking them and basic security controls.

rootusrootus 5y ago
> How many utilities, credit card companies require a checking account for autopay? In my experience, this is getting better! I now have all but one of my bills being paid by my credit card. Used to be that the utility companies made you pay extra and use a third party service if you wanted to use your credit card. Not all, though. Verizon, for example, will let you pay with a credit card, but they give a substantial discount if you use a debit card instead. For obvious reasons. I hope that does not become normal. I'm used to Verizon being scummy, I hope it doesn't become the default behavior for the other utilities I pay for.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  The US needs an automatic bill payment system with strong guarantees. In Britain, most people¹ pay bills (electricity, water, phone, internet, insurance, car loan, credit card etc) by "Direct Debit"². (Most European countries have a similar system with similar guarantees, but this one is described in English.) If anything should go wrong, the bank must fix it. There's a list of direct debits in the bank's interface, and they can be cancelled/suspended with one click (or by phoning or going to the bank). It isn't perfect (see 3 from two weeks ago) but that sort of problem is rare enough that it was reported in newspapers. ¹ "Direct Debits are used by nine in ten UK consumers to pay some or all of their regular bills". ² https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/DirectDebitGuarantee.aspx https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/Pages/Dir... ³ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/03/tsb-customers-double-charged-due-to-technical-error---here-s-wha/ https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/03/tsb-customers...

Loughla 5y ago

Ever, never, never use your debit card where credit card can be used in its place. The mechanisms for restoring the charge on your credit card are much stronger than on your debit card. And a credit card is a FUTURE charge, so you have time to fix the problem. Whereas a debit card is your CURRENT money, so it's just gone unless you get it back. I do not understand why people use debit cards linked to their actual bank account out in the world. Paying bills securely through the utility is the only thing we use that for.

rootusrootus 5y ago
Agreed. I almost never use my debit card. And now, my wife doesn't either. Though her card got skimmed at an ATM, not during a debit card transaction, so this advice doesn't work. Now she just doesn't ever use ATMs. For better or worse, we now keep a few grand in the safe at home and pull from that for the occasional cash need. When I need to replenish that, I walk into the bank and take it out the old fashioned way. It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you...
Hackbraten 5y ago
I have stopped using credit cards for two reasons: 1. My debit cards allow me to directly import transactions into my personal accounting software while my credit cards don’t; and 2. when I shop online, my debit cards allow me to use them as a 2nd factor (using a USB card reader) while my credit cards require either an iOS or Android device for 2FA. You’re right in that a credit card is a future charge and debit isn’t. But are debit cards really so much more insecure? What threat model do you have in mind?
- TylerE 5y ago
  If your credit card is compromised, you make a phone call and maybe can't use it for a few days. If your debit card gets compromised, your rent check bounces. Plus, frankly, banks are generally more protective of THIER money than YOUR money.
  - Hackbraten 5y ago