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Cryptocurrency theft is illegal and the US government does investigate and prosecute it. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/feb/14/us-bitcoin-case-cyberc

Cryptocurrency theft is illegal and the US government does investigate and prosecute it. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/feb/14/us-bitcoin-case-cybercrime https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/feb/14/us-bitcoin-case-...

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
Yes, but it's an open question how successfully and how frequently they catch the bad guys.
- px43 5y ago
  It's only an open question to people who haven't actually looked into it. Yeah, criminals get caught trying to move around stolen cryptocurrencies all the time.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    And how many don't get caught?
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    Out of, say, the last ten big DeFi hacks, in what fraction have the perpetrators been caught? https://decrypt.co/93874/11-biggest-defi-hacks-heists https://decrypt.co/93874/11-biggest-defi-hacks-heists I looked up the first six (#11-#6) projects on this list and I didn't see that in any of those cases the perpetrators have been caught nor the funds returned. I could be missing something though.
lolinder 5y ago
That's all well and good when the thieves are in the US or a country that will extradite them. What happens when the thieves are operating out of a country without an extradition treaty? In the regular financial world you can at least reverse the transaction. With crypto, is there anything you can do?
- chippiewill 5y ago
  In principle if you had enough desire among world governments you could plausibly try and legally force a blockchain fork.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    And do that every time a hack occurs? What would the threshold be for when that would be worth it? Could I recover $100k that got stolen? What about $10k? $1k?
    - nightpool 5y ago
      Sure, why not? You could even automate it, using a SWIFT-like messaging pipeline that all mining companies have to subscribe to. Blockchains are fundamentally a social construct, and governments have the ability to regulate the individuals who are creating the blockchain. If there was enough political will for it, you could absolutely bolt a "reversal" mechanism onto any existing blockchain. Unless you're doing your mining operation entirely on the black market, you're going to rely on the government for enforcement of your colo rent agreements, your electricity agreements, etc, so there's lots of incentive to comply.
      - lolinder 5y ago
        What you have when you're done with the process you've described is a centralized banking system managed by world governments, which is what we already have. It's not perfect, but it works, and lots of people are actively working on improving it in ways that don't involve the contradiction inherent in centralized decentralization.
        nightpool 5y ago
        Yes? That's the point of my comment? I'm confused about what you're saying. I'm trying to answer your question "And do that every time a hack occurs?". The answer is yes, it's completely feasible and within the powers of a government or inter-government treaty organization to do this every time a hack occurs, because they already do. I'm not trying to say that such a system is good, just that it's possible. There is nothing "special" about blockchains that exempts them from normal government regulation.
d3nj4l 5y ago
Nice, so it's just money with extra steps.
MereInterest 5y ago
Sounds like a non-sequitur. Theft of cryptocurrency being illegal does not mean that it is safe, and doesn't offer any evidence at all against the parent's post that it is "safer" to use banking systems than to use blockchain.
ChrisLomont 5y ago
Not to anywhere near the extent as they'd investigate and prosecute for $625M stolen from a normal bank.....
- tornato7 5y ago
  Do you have any sources to support that claim? You can see in the link above that a task force worked for years to catch that Bitcoin heist couple.
  - ChrisLomont 5y ago
    Sure. Google how many bank robbers got caught the past ten years. Do the same for BTC. Then look at what percent of BTC has been stolen. Look up what percent of USD has been stolen. Conclusion? Far less effort spent on BTC cases and far less thefts resolved.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Sure but it doesn't mean I will get my "money" back like it would with a bank. There is no FDIC for crypto.
- tornato7 5y ago
  Plenty of crypto companies insure their deposits through third parties. Actually, Ronin users should have been able to insure their deposits with Nexus Mutual.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

Yes, but it's an open question how successfully and how frequently they catch the bad guys.

px43 5y ago
It's only an open question to people who haven't actually looked into it. Yeah, criminals get caught trying to move around stolen cryptocurrencies all the time.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  And how many don't get caught?
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  Out of, say, the last ten big DeFi hacks, in what fraction have the perpetrators been caught? https://decrypt.co/93874/11-biggest-defi-hacks-heists https://decrypt.co/93874/11-biggest-defi-hacks-heists I looked up the first six (#11-#6) projects on this list and I didn't see that in any of those cases the perpetrators have been caught nor the funds returned. I could be missing something though.

lolinder 5y ago

That's all well and good when the thieves are in the US or a country that will extradite them. What happens when the thieves are operating out of a country without an extradition treaty? In the regular financial world you can at least reverse the transaction. With crypto, is there anything you can do?

chippiewill 5y ago
In principle if you had enough desire among world governments you could plausibly try and legally force a blockchain fork.
- lolinder 5y ago
  And do that every time a hack occurs? What would the threshold be for when that would be worth it? Could I recover $100k that got stolen? What about $10k? $1k?
  - nightpool 5y ago
    Sure, why not? You could even automate it, using a SWIFT-like messaging pipeline that all mining companies have to subscribe to. Blockchains are fundamentally a social construct, and governments have the ability to regulate the individuals who are creating the blockchain. If there was enough political will for it, you could absolutely bolt a "reversal" mechanism onto any existing blockchain. Unless you're doing your mining operation entirely on the black market, you're going to rely on the government for enforcement of your colo rent agreements, your electricity agreements, etc, so there's lots of incentive to comply.
    - lolinder 5y ago
      What you have when you're done with the process you've described is a centralized banking system managed by world governments, which is what we already have. It's not perfect, but it works, and lots of people are actively working on improving it in ways that don't involve the contradiction inherent in centralized decentralization.
      - nightpool 5y ago
        Yes? That's the point of my comment? I'm confused about what you're saying. I'm trying to answer your question "And do that every time a hack occurs?". The answer is yes, it's completely feasible and within the powers of a government or inter-government treaty organization to do this every time a hack occurs, because they already do. I'm not trying to say that such a system is good, just that it's possible. There is nothing "special" about blockchains that exempts them from normal government regulation.

d3nj4l 5y ago

Nice, so it's just money with extra steps.

MereInterest 5y ago

Sounds like a non-sequitur. Theft of cryptocurrency being illegal does not mean that it is safe, and doesn't offer any evidence at all against the parent's post that it is "safer" to use banking systems than to use blockchain.

ChrisLomont 5y ago

Not to anywhere near the extent as they'd investigate and prosecute for $625M stolen from a normal bank.....

tornato7 5y ago
Do you have any sources to support that claim? You can see in the link above that a task force worked for years to catch that Bitcoin heist couple.
- ChrisLomont 5y ago
  Sure. Google how many bank robbers got caught the past ten years. Do the same for BTC. Then look at what percent of BTC has been stolen. Look up what percent of USD has been stolen. Conclusion? Far less effort spent on BTC cases and far less thefts resolved.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Sure but it doesn't mean I will get my "money" back like it would with a bank. There is no FDIC for crypto.

tornato7 5y ago
Plenty of crypto companies insure their deposits through third parties. Actually, Ronin users should have been able to insure their deposits with Nexus Mutual.