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> So your solution is to get rid of speedy emergency requests entirely? No? Anecdotally, from what we are reading today, a typical EDR response time is on the

> So your solution is to get rid of speedy emergency requests entirely? No? Anecdotally, from what we are reading today, a typical EDR response time is on the order of an hour. So while someone on my team is gathering the requested data, someone else is doing the verification. > Sounds like you’re just repeating the point that authenticating these requests is impossible, as that authentication would have to happen fast. If anything, I'm implying that if the government mandates that EDRs exist, they should have to back it up with someone to handle authentication. A phone number at the state level would do the trick. > And then you need to do this internationally. What will you do? First I'd have to be convinced why I should do this in every jurisdiction, why that jurisdiction would have access to customer data from other jurisdictions, etc. Sounds like you're saying the problem is that the government is mandating things and providing no rules about how it should work. That seems like such an un-government-like thing to do, they usually get weirdly specific.

coospep 5y ago
> So while someone on my team is gathering the requested data, someone else is doing the verification The whole point is that verification will take much longer than hours. > Sounds like you're saying the problem is that the government is mandating things and providing no rules about how it should work. That seems like such an un-government-like thing to do, they usually get weirdly specific. The government is very specific when it comes to what is required of you. The government is not very specific when it comes to what is required of the government.
- logifail 5y ago
  > The whole point is that verification will take much longer than hours. How can it take longer than hours to reach the actual police department in $someSmallTown, USA ? $Deity forbid you actually happen to live in $someSmallTown and need the police in a hurry...
  - coospep 5y ago
    $someSmallTown might not even have a police department, how are you supposed to find out if the only one that comes up on the internet is fake?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - logifail 5y ago
      Someone wearing a uniform turns up on your doorstep with a piece of paper that they claim is a search warrant. You say you want to talk to your lawyer. They say they're in a hurry and this is really important. At this point you decide to google the name of the person who signed the warrant, you phone the number you find on the internet, "Judge" Smith answers, so you let the "officer" into your house. Really?
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Research the village constables in Alaska. There are also small towns that have only part time police forces. This sort of stuff really isn't uncommon.
    - logifail 5y ago
      FWIW I lived in a village with a part-time police presence. Based on our experiences they're great for helping local kids not get run over on the walk to school (and for closing down public spaces when Covid paranoia was at its highest in early 2020). Manhunts or major crimes? Not so much. I'm struggling to get my head around how a tiny and/or part-time police force should be the (sole?) point of contact for an emergency data request when <drum roll> they're not even there for the majority of every 24h cycle. "Dear $TelCo, you must immediately release location data for subscriber 1-800-555-2368, it's so important and urgent we haven't got time to find a judge. Since it's almost 4pm we're going off duty now and will be at our desks from 9am tomorrow. Yours, $PartTimeForce"
logifail 5y ago
> if the government mandates that EDRs exist Q: Is government mandating this? At what level? ...and if so, why?
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Well, I assumed that the only reason anybody was complying with an EDR was because there was a law mandating they do so. Otherwise, why aren't they just dropping these requests in the trash?
  - logifail 5y ago
    > the only reason anybody was complying with an EDR was because there was a law mandating they do so Alternatively, it's possible that understaffed and overworked providers are more concerned about their company looking bad when "Missing Child X with schoolbag containing cellphone" isn't located before the next news cycle? Doesn't due process exist for a reason? Even if that's occasionally a PITA for the authorities?

coospep 5y ago

> So while someone on my team is gathering the requested data, someone else is doing the verification The whole point is that verification will take much longer than hours. > Sounds like you're saying the problem is that the government is mandating things and providing no rules about how it should work. That seems like such an un-government-like thing to do, they usually get weirdly specific. The government is very specific when it comes to what is required of you. The government is not very specific when it comes to what is required of the government.

logifail 5y ago
> The whole point is that verification will take much longer than hours. How can it take longer than hours to reach the actual police department in $someSmallTown, USA ? $Deity forbid you actually happen to live in $someSmallTown and need the police in a hurry...
- coospep 5y ago
  $someSmallTown might not even have a police department, how are you supposed to find out if the only one that comes up on the internet is fake?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - logifail 5y ago
    Someone wearing a uniform turns up on your doorstep with a piece of paper that they claim is a search warrant. You say you want to talk to your lawyer. They say they're in a hurry and this is really important. At this point you decide to google the name of the person who signed the warrant, you phone the number you find on the internet, "Judge" Smith answers, so you let the "officer" into your house. Really?
- giantg2 5y ago
  Research the village constables in Alaska. There are also small towns that have only part time police forces. This sort of stuff really isn't uncommon.
  - logifail 5y ago
    FWIW I lived in a village with a part-time police presence. Based on our experiences they're great for helping local kids not get run over on the walk to school (and for closing down public spaces when Covid paranoia was at its highest in early 2020). Manhunts or major crimes? Not so much. I'm struggling to get my head around how a tiny and/or part-time police force should be the (sole?) point of contact for an emergency data request when <drum roll> they're not even there for the majority of every 24h cycle. "Dear $TelCo, you must immediately release location data for subscriber 1-800-555-2368, it's so important and urgent we haven't got time to find a judge. Since it's almost 4pm we're going off duty now and will be at our desks from 9am tomorrow. Yours, $PartTimeForce"

logifail 5y ago

> if the government mandates that EDRs exist Q: Is government mandating this? At what level? ...and if so, why?

rootusrootus 5y ago
Well, I assumed that the only reason anybody was complying with an EDR was because there was a law mandating they do so. Otherwise, why aren't they just dropping these requests in the trash?
- logifail 5y ago
  > the only reason anybody was complying with an EDR was because there was a law mandating they do so Alternatively, it's possible that understaffed and overworked providers are more concerned about their company looking bad when "Missing Child X with schoolbag containing cellphone" isn't located before the next news cycle? Doesn't due process exist for a reason? Even if that's occasionally a PITA for the authorities?