4 ms·

> The attacker used hacked private keys Why do people write "hacked" instead of "stolen"? To make it look like robbing them is harder than it actually is?

by toyg 5y ago

cesaref 5y ago
Stolen has a very specific meaning, it involves taking something from someone else, denying them the ability to use it. If the person still has the thing, you've not stolen it. I think 'copied' is the right word here. They hacked the system, and copied the keys.
ttoinou 5y ago
Stolen implies a concept of property. Which doesnt exists here....
CydeWeys 5y ago
What meaningful distinction is drawn by using one of these words over the other? "Hacked" typically implies it happened over the net, whereas "stolen" typically implies it physically happened in person. The former is more appropriate here, no?
- jsmith99 5y ago
  I like to distinguish attacks where money was stolen using stolen credentials from those that occured simply by manipulating smart contracts. Some crypto enthusiasts would consider the second type of attack to be legitimate activity rather than theft, so long as the attacker stayed within the letter of the 'law' as expressed on chain.
- fsckboy 5y ago
  hacking a system and stealing a key (copying) is a lot less interesting than hacking a key by exploiting some cryptographic weakness
- bruce511 5y ago
  I'm not sure I agree. I mean secrets can be stolen. Apparently pirating music or movies is theft and so on. We've often seen the naritive of Big company stealing ideas etc from smaller companies. So stealing can extend beyond simple physical property, and could acceptably encompass IP as well.
  - cesaref 5y ago
    It's a smart move by the entertainment industry to try to rebrand piracy as theft, as the public at large understand theft as a bad thing. Legally though I think it's 'copyright infringement' which sounds a lot less sexy.
    - teknopaul 5y ago
      Certainly in the UK theft is "taking possession with intent to permanently deny the owner of it". Copyright infringement is not theft by that definition. Saw this great stand-up skit by someone who was asked to compare copyright infringement to stealing a car... It like stealing a car but You just stick you finger out, touch the car, and it's your car! And the owner still has the car! And literally all my friends do it!
- toyg 5y ago
  I guess I'm old, but "hacked" to me typically involves trickery in manipulating the object itself, not just exfiltrating it. You hack a system to copy data, you don't "hack data". If you say you hacked keys, I expect you manipulated those keys with some crypto wizardry, but in this case it just means somebody somehow obtained them somehow.
skybrian 5y ago
"Hacked" makes it sound like they had security measures against theft. I wonder how good their security was? (Also, could an insider have done it.)
MichaelGlass 5y ago
If you have a legal system, then breaking my lock is unlawful intrusion, and if you take something from behind my locked door, it's theft. Without a legal system, e.g. crypto, if you solve my puzzle, then you deserve the reward. It's just math!
- ganzuul 5y ago
- monocasa 5y ago
  > Without a legal system, e.g. crypto, if you solve my puzzle, then you deserve the reward. It's just math! My fear keeping me from getting into the... offensive crypto space has been that the original owners of the wallets won't see it that way, and an imperfect opsec will leave me as one of the 70% of murders that don't get solved in the US. Someone with millions to billions in crypto has a decent chance of being diversified, and use to backfilling the lack of access to the state's monopoly on violence with some of their own.
- teknopaul 5y ago
  I don't think any math was done. They sneaked a copy of the answer. Of course, if someone does work out the math (as they did with MD5 and sha1) it's going to be popcorn time.
- toyg 5y ago
  Steal, copy, exfiltrate, obtain - that's not the point. The point is that hacking, when transitive, involves manipulating an object. It is not a synonym for "copy". When people use it like that, it's typically to hide the fact that their (human or technical) systems were so bad that somebody managed to copy data they should not have. "They hacked keys!!11!" - No, something or somebody gave them keys, but you want us to believe that it required incredible skills.

> The attacker used hacked private keys Why do people write "hacked" instead of "stolen"? To make it look like robbing them is harder than it actually is?

by toyg 5y ago

> The attacker used hacked private keys Why do people write "hacked" instead of "stolen"? To make it look like robbing them is harder than it actually is?

cesaref 5y ago

Stolen has a very specific meaning, it involves taking something from someone else, denying them the ability to use it. If the person still has the thing, you've not stolen it. I think 'copied' is the right word here. They hacked the system, and copied the keys.

ttoinou 5y ago

Stolen implies a concept of property. Which doesnt exists here....

CydeWeys 5y ago

What meaningful distinction is drawn by using one of these words over the other? "Hacked" typically implies it happened over the net, whereas "stolen" typically implies it physically happened in person. The former is more appropriate here, no?

jsmith99 5y ago
I like to distinguish attacks where money was stolen using stolen credentials from those that occured simply by manipulating smart contracts. Some crypto enthusiasts would consider the second type of attack to be legitimate activity rather than theft, so long as the attacker stayed within the letter of the 'law' as expressed on chain.
fsckboy 5y ago
hacking a system and stealing a key (copying) is a lot less interesting than hacking a key by exploiting some cryptographic weakness
bruce511 5y ago
I'm not sure I agree. I mean secrets can be stolen. Apparently pirating music or movies is theft and so on. We've often seen the naritive of Big company stealing ideas etc from smaller companies. So stealing can extend beyond simple physical property, and could acceptably encompass IP as well.
- cesaref 5y ago
  It's a smart move by the entertainment industry to try to rebrand piracy as theft, as the public at large understand theft as a bad thing. Legally though I think it's 'copyright infringement' which sounds a lot less sexy.
  - teknopaul 5y ago
    Certainly in the UK theft is "taking possession with intent to permanently deny the owner of it". Copyright infringement is not theft by that definition. Saw this great stand-up skit by someone who was asked to compare copyright infringement to stealing a car... It like stealing a car but You just stick you finger out, touch the car, and it's your car! And the owner still has the car! And literally all my friends do it!
toyg 5y ago
I guess I'm old, but "hacked" to me typically involves trickery in manipulating the object itself, not just exfiltrating it. You hack a system to copy data, you don't "hack data". If you say you hacked keys, I expect you manipulated those keys with some crypto wizardry, but in this case it just means somebody somehow obtained them somehow.

skybrian 5y ago

"Hacked" makes it sound like they had security measures against theft. I wonder how good their security was? (Also, could an insider have done it.)

MichaelGlass 5y ago

If you have a legal system, then breaking my lock is unlawful intrusion, and if you take something from behind my locked door, it's theft. Without a legal system, e.g. crypto, if you solve my puzzle, then you deserve the reward. It's just math!

ganzuul 5y ago
monocasa 5y ago
> Without a legal system, e.g. crypto, if you solve my puzzle, then you deserve the reward. It's just math! My fear keeping me from getting into the... offensive crypto space has been that the original owners of the wallets won't see it that way, and an imperfect opsec will leave me as one of the 70% of murders that don't get solved in the US. Someone with millions to billions in crypto has a decent chance of being diversified, and use to backfilling the lack of access to the state's monopoly on violence with some of their own.
teknopaul 5y ago
I don't think any math was done. They sneaked a copy of the answer. Of course, if someone does work out the math (as they did with MD5 and sha1) it's going to be popcorn time.
toyg 5y ago
Steal, copy, exfiltrate, obtain - that's not the point. The point is that hacking, when transitive, involves manipulating an object. It is not a synonym for "copy". When people use it like that, it's typically to hide the fact that their (human or technical) systems were so bad that somebody managed to copy data they should not have. "They hacked keys!!11!" - No, something or somebody gave them keys, but you want us to believe that it required incredible skills.