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The problem with Django is that it's so opinionated. If you don't really use the admin interface and you want to do things your own way you will spend way more

The problem with Django is that it's so opinionated. If you don't really use the admin interface and you want to do things your own way you will spend way more time wrestling with Django than you saved using a few plugins. Also, the ORM is hot garbage that you have to carry with you to some degree if you do actually use the admin at all.

sgt 5y ago
First thing I do is disable the admin interface. I think most serious Django devs view it as a gimmick.
- andybak 5y ago
  Not all of us.
  - sgt 5y ago
    I guess it's a nice way to visualize the models, at least in the beginning. I prefer shell_plus along with dbshell. Then I can also write code that I can later easily adapt into my views etc.
    - andybak 5y ago
      It's invaluable in many ways for me and my clients and it's saved me countless hours of developing things from scratch. I think the animosity towards "over use" by some of the core community is misguided. The continued work that goes towards improving extensibility and features is surely a sign that someone finds it worth contributing towards. And the number of projects on Github or Django Packages that hook into the admin have to be written by somebody.
saila 5y ago
I rarely use the Django Admin except maybe for poking around in the early stages. I’ve never tried to build a full blown app/site with it. I think the right comparison here is to Flask-Admin, though, not Flask itself, and I’ll just say that the app I have to deal with that’s built on Flask-Admin is a nightmare, certainly no better than an equivalent app using Django Admin would be. Re the Django ORM, SQLAlchemy is certainly better in many ways, but the Django ORM is pretty good these days (and has been for a while IMO). If I know I’ll have complex database requirements that Django can’t easily handle, I’d much rather use Pyramid + SQLAlchemy than Flask.
andybak 5y ago
> the ORM is hot garbage It really is not.

sgt 5y ago

First thing I do is disable the admin interface. I think most serious Django devs view it as a gimmick.

andybak 5y ago
Not all of us.
- sgt 5y ago
  I guess it's a nice way to visualize the models, at least in the beginning. I prefer shell_plus along with dbshell. Then I can also write code that I can later easily adapt into my views etc.
  - andybak 5y ago
    It's invaluable in many ways for me and my clients and it's saved me countless hours of developing things from scratch. I think the animosity towards "over use" by some of the core community is misguided. The continued work that goes towards improving extensibility and features is surely a sign that someone finds it worth contributing towards. And the number of projects on Github or Django Packages that hook into the admin have to be written by somebody.

saila 5y ago

I rarely use the Django Admin except maybe for poking around in the early stages. I’ve never tried to build a full blown app/site with it. I think the right comparison here is to Flask-Admin, though, not Flask itself, and I’ll just say that the app I have to deal with that’s built on Flask-Admin is a nightmare, certainly no better than an equivalent app using Django Admin would be. Re the Django ORM, SQLAlchemy is certainly better in many ways, but the Django ORM is pretty good these days (and has been for a while IMO). If I know I’ll have complex database requirements that Django can’t easily handle, I’d much rather use Pyramid + SQLAlchemy than Flask.

andybak 5y ago

> the ORM is hot garbage It really is not.