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> people telling you that you shouldn't exist Who does this? I'm asking because I have seen this notion expressed hundreds of times, but in 100% of cases, ther

> people telling you that you shouldn't exist Who does this? I'm asking because I have seen this notion expressed hundreds of times, but in 100% of cases, there is no example given that even remotely justifies this hyperbole.

pfarrell 5y ago
Not the OP and not trans, but do have several trans people in my sphere of relationships. This attitude and threats definitely exist more than 0%, in the USA. Especially outside major metropolitans.
teekert 5y ago
We recently had a person IRL screaming "they'd do anything for their faith" and "now he knows where she lives" in our street, presumable because our neighbor's kid since a year or so identifies as male. One can feel pretty unsafe as a neighbor, imagine the kid and the family.
sascha_sl 5y ago
It's usually somewhat veiled, benefiting from the lack of context a lot of people have for how trans people work. Take the current massive wave of attempts to legislate puberty blockers as illegal (or even taking your kid to a different state for this purpose). On the face of it "people should wait until they're grown up" sounds reasonable. What's missing is that puberty blockers actually just delay irreversible / only surgically reversible changes, things like breast growth, facial hair and vocal changes. Forcing a trans kid through the wrong set of changes is a massive driver of depression and suicide, not just during puberty, but also later in life. They feel broken (hell, _I_ feel broken). Fixing these permanent changes is often extremely costly and care is not easy to access, so everyone else needs to exist in a state that could be described as "uncanny valley" to most people. Mental health outcomes in trans people are directly correlated to how soon you stop this process. In essentially all cases (more than 99% of all cases in the UK) these children will not change their mind either, so in essence we have already compromised on giving children hormone replacement during their puberty for the miniscule chance of hurting a theoretical "confused cis kid". Cis lives matter more than trans lives in this system by a factor greater than 1:99.
- playpause 5y ago
  I think your summary of the debate around puberty blockers is a bit selective, and your stat “more than 99% will not change their mind” doesn’t seem to be anywhere near the true figure, sadly. But what does any of this have to do with my question? Are you really suggesting that attempts to regulate the prescription of puberty blockers in children are a veiled attack on trans people? And you’re saying this to defend the claim that trans people are regularly being ‘told’ they shouldn’t exist?
  - sascha_sl 5y ago
    It increases adverse mental health outcomes, including suicide, so yes. Don't forget the attempts to make educators forcefully out trans kids to their parents and removal of any references to transness from adolecents environment. It's actually quite orwellian to prohibit exposure to the very idea (and words to describe the condition) of transness. I am very much affetced by this, growing up in the 90s with homophobic parents. I did show some signs of being GNC, but having the impression trans people are all sexually motivated perverts, I never allowed myself to get beyond the starting stage of exploring that thought until I met other trans people. Hell, some transphobes are selling guides[1] to avoid child protective services during your quest to avoid your kid from knowing what trans people are[2]. The 99% stat is such deep consensus, transphobes have been citing it as proof that putting children on puberty blockers is causing them to "lock in"[3] (with no proof, obviously). The real story is closer to "very few people are seen by GIDS, and among those, even less get the entirely reversible stopgap measure". The number of all prescriptions at any one time in the UK is usually around 500-600, with many trans people not even having a chance to have them prescribed to them (or getting them off-label / diy). This process needs less gatekeeping, not more. [1]: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/desist-detrans-detox-maria-keffler/1139191883 https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/desist-detrans-detox-maria-... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBbOw_K6K5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBbOw_K6K5Q [3]: https://twitter.com/alliancelgb/status/1334639708207509504 https://twitter.com/alliancelgb/status/1334639708207509504

pfarrell 5y ago

Not the OP and not trans, but do have several trans people in my sphere of relationships. This attitude and threats definitely exist more than 0%, in the USA. Especially outside major metropolitans.

teekert 5y ago

We recently had a person IRL screaming "they'd do anything for their faith" and "now he knows where she lives" in our street, presumable because our neighbor's kid since a year or so identifies as male. One can feel pretty unsafe as a neighbor, imagine the kid and the family.

sascha_sl 5y ago

It's usually somewhat veiled, benefiting from the lack of context a lot of people have for how trans people work. Take the current massive wave of attempts to legislate puberty blockers as illegal (or even taking your kid to a different state for this purpose). On the face of it "people should wait until they're grown up" sounds reasonable. What's missing is that puberty blockers actually just delay irreversible / only surgically reversible changes, things like breast growth, facial hair and vocal changes. Forcing a trans kid through the wrong set of changes is a massive driver of depression and suicide, not just during puberty, but also later in life. They feel broken (hell, _I_ feel broken). Fixing these permanent changes is often extremely costly and care is not easy to access, so everyone else needs to exist in a state that could be described as "uncanny valley" to most people. Mental health outcomes in trans people are directly correlated to how soon you stop this process. In essentially all cases (more than 99% of all cases in the UK) these children will not change their mind either, so in essence we have already compromised on giving children hormone replacement during their puberty for the miniscule chance of hurting a theoretical "confused cis kid". Cis lives matter more than trans lives in this system by a factor greater than 1:99.

playpause 5y ago
I think your summary of the debate around puberty blockers is a bit selective, and your stat “more than 99% will not change their mind” doesn’t seem to be anywhere near the true figure, sadly. But what does any of this have to do with my question? Are you really suggesting that attempts to regulate the prescription of puberty blockers in children are a veiled attack on trans people? And you’re saying this to defend the claim that trans people are regularly being ‘told’ they shouldn’t exist?
- sascha_sl 5y ago
  It increases adverse mental health outcomes, including suicide, so yes. Don't forget the attempts to make educators forcefully out trans kids to their parents and removal of any references to transness from adolecents environment. It's actually quite orwellian to prohibit exposure to the very idea (and words to describe the condition) of transness. I am very much affetced by this, growing up in the 90s with homophobic parents. I did show some signs of being GNC, but having the impression trans people are all sexually motivated perverts, I never allowed myself to get beyond the starting stage of exploring that thought until I met other trans people. Hell, some transphobes are selling guides[1] to avoid child protective services during your quest to avoid your kid from knowing what trans people are[2]. The 99% stat is such deep consensus, transphobes have been citing it as proof that putting children on puberty blockers is causing them to "lock in"[3] (with no proof, obviously). The real story is closer to "very few people are seen by GIDS, and among those, even less get the entirely reversible stopgap measure". The number of all prescriptions at any one time in the UK is usually around 500-600, with many trans people not even having a chance to have them prescribed to them (or getting them off-label / diy). This process needs less gatekeeping, not more. [1]: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/desist-detrans-detox-maria-keffler/1139191883 https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/desist-detrans-detox-maria-... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBbOw_K6K5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBbOw_K6K5Q [3]: https://twitter.com/alliancelgb/status/1334639708207509504 https://twitter.com/alliancelgb/status/1334639708207509504