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For anybody wondering why you might want some sunlight to disinfect the voting process a look at how the NSA has previously managed to corrupt internet standard

by pydry 5y ago

For anybody wondering why you might want some sunlight to disinfect the voting process a look at how the NSA has previously managed to corrupt internet standards: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/... I'd be shocked if they didnt also have their claws into debian's operations for similar reasons. I'd not be very surprised if they were indirectly behind this push either. The fact that this seems to be inspired by the people backing the very obvious hatchet job done on Richard Stallman only makes me more suspicious that its motives are anything but pure. The biggest threat model here is probably the NSA using its assets to sway votes (probably unknowingly for most if not all, if they are influenced by a third party they dont know is fronting the NSA). Secrecy will make it that much easier to corrupt votes. Tolerating a bit of personal abuse and cracking down on it separately is probably preferable to the existential threat to free software this presents.

josteink 5y ago
> The fact that this seems to be inspired by the people backing the very obvious hatchet job done on Richard Stallman only makes me more suspicious that its motives are anything but pure. From the outside looking in, it looks like another obvious SJW coup.
mlindner 5y ago
You're phrasing of "sunlight to disinfect the voting process" is rather disgusting personally... You try to twist something that's quite horrible, namely voter corruption through public opinion as if it is somehow "disinfecting" anything. The mob mentality of the internet is best kept away from any voting base.
- pydry 5y ago
  These people are making decisions that affect all of us on our behalf. Decisions that affect the security and integrity of the software we rely upon every single day. It is not "disgusting" that we be allowed to question their decisions. Every introduction of democracy or futherance of democracy has been castigated by autocrats as rule by mob. The sickening irony here is that it looks like this was done to try and protect the identities of members of the mob who tried and failed to cancel Stallman.
  - ahtihn 5y ago
    > These people are making decisions that affect all of us on our behalf. Decisions that affect the security and integrity of the software we rely upon every single day. Since when do Debian developers owe the public anything? They don't represent you, they don't owe you anything and you are absolutely not in a position to demand anything from them. If you're not happy with how the project is run, you're free to use something else. If you want developers to be accountable to you, you can hire them and make them sign a contract.
    - Anthony-G 5y ago
      Individualised contracts wouldn’t scale well for Debian’s user-base. Luckily, there’s no need for that. The Debian project considers itself to be a community rather than a business. According to the Debian social contract¹, > We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. > We will place their interests first in our priorities. Another one of their stated values is: > We will not hide problems ¹ https://www.debian.org/social_contract https://www.debian.org/social_contract
  - mlindner 5y ago
    > These people are making decisions that affect all of us on our behalf. Decisions that affect the security and integrity of the software we rely upon every single day. They're only "on your behalf" if you had a part in picking them. Did you vote for or nominate them? If not, no they are not working on your behalf and you have no right to see how they vote.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- azornathogron 5y ago
  The phrase "sunlight is the best disinfectant" has a fairly long history [1], having been used in both metaphorical and literal senses. [1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/09/22/sunlight/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/09/22/sunlight/
  - mxmilkiib 5y ago
    Also stuff like https://sunlightfoundation.com https://sunlightfoundation.com
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Would you also support the votes of Congresspeople or MPs being secret?
Anthony-G 5y ago
Very good – and important – point. Original (non-Google AMP) URL: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encry... It’s hard to believe that it’s more than eight years since the Snowden revelations. Tempus fugit.

by pydry 5y ago

josteink 5y ago

> The fact that this seems to be inspired by the people backing the very obvious hatchet job done on Richard Stallman only makes me more suspicious that its motives are anything but pure. From the outside looking in, it looks like another obvious SJW coup.

mlindner 5y ago

You're phrasing of "sunlight to disinfect the voting process" is rather disgusting personally... You try to twist something that's quite horrible, namely voter corruption through public opinion as if it is somehow "disinfecting" anything. The mob mentality of the internet is best kept away from any voting base.

pydry 5y ago
These people are making decisions that affect all of us on our behalf. Decisions that affect the security and integrity of the software we rely upon every single day. It is not "disgusting" that we be allowed to question their decisions. Every introduction of democracy or futherance of democracy has been castigated by autocrats as rule by mob. The sickening irony here is that it looks like this was done to try and protect the identities of members of the mob who tried and failed to cancel Stallman.
- ahtihn 5y ago
  > These people are making decisions that affect all of us on our behalf. Decisions that affect the security and integrity of the software we rely upon every single day. Since when do Debian developers owe the public anything? They don't represent you, they don't owe you anything and you are absolutely not in a position to demand anything from them. If you're not happy with how the project is run, you're free to use something else. If you want developers to be accountable to you, you can hire them and make them sign a contract.
  - Anthony-G 5y ago
    Individualised contracts wouldn’t scale well for Debian’s user-base. Luckily, there’s no need for that. The Debian project considers itself to be a community rather than a business. According to the Debian social contract¹, > We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. > We will place their interests first in our priorities. Another one of their stated values is: > We will not hide problems ¹ https://www.debian.org/social_contract https://www.debian.org/social_contract
- mlindner 5y ago
  > These people are making decisions that affect all of us on our behalf. Decisions that affect the security and integrity of the software we rely upon every single day. They're only "on your behalf" if you had a part in picking them. Did you vote for or nominate them? If not, no they are not working on your behalf and you have no right to see how they vote.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
azornathogron 5y ago
The phrase "sunlight is the best disinfectant" has a fairly long history [1], having been used in both metaphorical and literal senses. [1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/09/22/sunlight/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/09/22/sunlight/
- mxmilkiib 5y ago
  Also stuff like https://sunlightfoundation.com https://sunlightfoundation.com
pessimizer 5y ago
Would you also support the votes of Congresspeople or MPs being secret?

Anthony-G 5y ago

Very good – and important – point. Original (non-Google AMP) URL: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encry... It’s hard to believe that it’s more than eight years since the Snowden revelations. Tempus fugit.