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Isn't there campaigning laws around that? If a political campaign did that in the UK they'd be raked over the coals by the Electoral Commission. Not that the c

Isn't there campaigning laws around that? If a political campaign did that in the UK they'd be raked over the coals by the Electoral Commission. Not that the country's been able to do anything about the sheer volume of scam texts pretending to be the Post Office with a parcel for you or Microsoft telling people their Windows boxes are full of viruses.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
It’s interesting to hear that the UK has sensible laws about this sort of thing. Over here in Murica we get these: https://imgur.com/a/UjELy2y https://imgur.com/a/UjELy2y My guess is that they’re sending this to all numbers in a certain area code. I’m in Missouri, which was mostly red. So they kindly delivered a MAGA to my phone and I’m like “thanks! … tell me who gave you my number so I can hire a hitman on them please” The political tactics at play are actually quite fascinating to me, because they seem so dumb. But it’s the opposite. In reality it’s effective, and I’ve always wondered why. So it’s interesting to hear that politicians are prohibited from doing this in other countries, and makes me wonder if it’s an effective policy. It seems like it might be. Of course, that doesn’t help rid us of the silagra spammers, but maybe the FCC can come up with a solution that can prohibit both. It feels sort of hopeless, but then I remember that we could literally proxy every text message through our laptops, run them through a 1997 naive Bayesian filter, and eliminate 97% of the problem with 0.03% false positives. It seems like a matter of time till some service comes along and makes that schlep effortless, and I can just pay $5/mo for the privilege of dodging spammers.
- Terry_Roll 5y ago
  >It’s interesting to hear that the UK has sensible laws about this sort of thing. "National Security" means the Security Services, Special Branch (the dept between the SS and Police), Police, NHS, Companies House and other Govt depts you've not heard of, can do what they like if you read UK legislation. Just look at the GDPR legislation. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/12/part/3/chapter/3/enacted https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/12/part/3/chapter/... Section 44 Subsection 4d Section 45 Subsection 4d Section 48 Subsection 3d And on the point of secure private communication, you may be old enough to remember the London Riots where Mark Duggan was shot dead which triggered rioting in London that spread? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots#Police_shooting_of_Mark_Duggan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots#Police_shoo... Well back then Rim Blackberry's and BBM were the popular mobile phone communication method, but what alot of people dont know is that RIM Root certs for BBM where in the possession of The Royal Canadian Police, who gave a copy to the UK authorities (5eyes data sharing), so every BBM message sent during the London riots organising disruption, were decrypted and read. There is no secure telecoms systems, there is "no law" when it comes to National Security in the UK and alot more conspiracy's are closer to the truth than people realise!
  - OJFord 5y ago
    How is that related to election law?
    - Terry_Roll 5y ago
      National Security means there is no law!
- rvba 5y ago
  Personality "traits": "big and loud"... are like an anti recommendation.
ldoughty 5y ago
In the USA, the law makers exempt themselves from many laws. For example, political campaigns can ignore the "Do not call" list which the government maintains which allows citizens to opt out of cold calls.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  This. Plus, political speech is the "most protected" type of speech in the US. Pretty much anything campaign-related falls under that umbrella. Couple that with the explicit exemptions ldoughty mentions and we tend to get a constant stream of political spam in the lead up to election day (where "lead up" for a presidential election starts about 2 years out - le sigh). Even worse, SCOTUS ruling over the last decade or so have reaffirmed that donations to political causes are speech, dark-money PACs are legal (donor disclosure not required), and all sorts of other things that many of us view as problematic.
- BoxOfRain 5y ago
  Bloody hell that's truly obnoxious. Reminds me of how MPs are exempt from the UK's surveillance programme, Orwell was bang on the money when he portrayed the inner Party members as being able to turn off their telescreens.
mcherm 5y ago
Does that mean I can get my opponent's political campaign raked over the coals by sending some false-flag spam? After all, the whole POINT of these spam messages is that the systems are (and this simply reeks of incompetence) incapable of determining the true source of the messages.
- ben174 5y ago
  Exactly this. I thought this was common knowledge now. You can't ban a bad actor without truly knowing the source of content. Otherwise I can just sabotage my enemies.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  Federal law requires political media to truthfully identify their origin.
  - macksd 5y ago
    Federal law requires a lot of things, but that doesn't mean people comply. Robocalls are already illegal. Soliciting people on the Do Not Call List over the phone is already illegal. Yet they happen daily for me.
  - mcherm 5y ago
    Are you saying that Federal law requires Verizon to truthfully identify the origin of spam text messages I receive? Because they are CLEARLY not doing that.
macksd 5y ago
Getting a call claiming to be from Trump's campaign asking for money doesn't even mean it's actually the Trump campaign, it could be anyone trying to get money from people who are passionate about Trump. And that's one of the problems here: unsolicited calls are real and problematic, unsolicited calls who aren't even from the person they appear to be are also real and even more problematic.
vineyardmike 5y ago
1. No there aren't 2. Its not like political campaigns are known following laws that do exist.

sillysaurusx 5y ago

It’s interesting to hear that the UK has sensible laws about this sort of thing. Over here in Murica we get these: https://imgur.com/a/UjELy2y https://imgur.com/a/UjELy2y My guess is that they’re sending this to all numbers in a certain area code. I’m in Missouri, which was mostly red. So they kindly delivered a MAGA to my phone and I’m like “thanks! … tell me who gave you my number so I can hire a hitman on them please” The political tactics at play are actually quite fascinating to me, because they seem so dumb. But it’s the opposite. In reality it’s effective, and I’ve always wondered why. So it’s interesting to hear that politicians are prohibited from doing this in other countries, and makes me wonder if it’s an effective policy. It seems like it might be. Of course, that doesn’t help rid us of the silagra spammers, but maybe the FCC can come up with a solution that can prohibit both. It feels sort of hopeless, but then I remember that we could literally proxy every text message through our laptops, run them through a 1997 naive Bayesian filter, and eliminate 97% of the problem with 0.03% false positives. It seems like a matter of time till some service comes along and makes that schlep effortless, and I can just pay $5/mo for the privilege of dodging spammers.

Terry_Roll 5y ago
>It’s interesting to hear that the UK has sensible laws about this sort of thing. "National Security" means the Security Services, Special Branch (the dept between the SS and Police), Police, NHS, Companies House and other Govt depts you've not heard of, can do what they like if you read UK legislation. Just look at the GDPR legislation. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/12/part/3/chapter/3/enacted https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/12/part/3/chapter/... Section 44 Subsection 4d Section 45 Subsection 4d Section 48 Subsection 3d And on the point of secure private communication, you may be old enough to remember the London Riots where Mark Duggan was shot dead which triggered rioting in London that spread? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots#Police_shooting_of_Mark_Duggan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots#Police_shoo... Well back then Rim Blackberry's and BBM were the popular mobile phone communication method, but what alot of people dont know is that RIM Root certs for BBM where in the possession of The Royal Canadian Police, who gave a copy to the UK authorities (5eyes data sharing), so every BBM message sent during the London riots organising disruption, were decrypted and read. There is no secure telecoms systems, there is "no law" when it comes to National Security in the UK and alot more conspiracy's are closer to the truth than people realise!
- OJFord 5y ago
  How is that related to election law?
  - Terry_Roll 5y ago
    National Security means there is no law!
rvba 5y ago
Personality "traits": "big and loud"... are like an anti recommendation.

ldoughty 5y ago

In the USA, the law makers exempt themselves from many laws. For example, political campaigns can ignore the "Do not call" list which the government maintains which allows citizens to opt out of cold calls.

alistairSH 5y ago
This. Plus, political speech is the "most protected" type of speech in the US. Pretty much anything campaign-related falls under that umbrella. Couple that with the explicit exemptions ldoughty mentions and we tend to get a constant stream of political spam in the lead up to election day (where "lead up" for a presidential election starts about 2 years out - le sigh). Even worse, SCOTUS ruling over the last decade or so have reaffirmed that donations to political causes are speech, dark-money PACs are legal (donor disclosure not required), and all sorts of other things that many of us view as problematic.
BoxOfRain 5y ago
Bloody hell that's truly obnoxious. Reminds me of how MPs are exempt from the UK's surveillance programme, Orwell was bang on the money when he portrayed the inner Party members as being able to turn off their telescreens.

mcherm 5y ago

Does that mean I can get my opponent's political campaign raked over the coals by sending some false-flag spam? After all, the whole POINT of these spam messages is that the systems are (and this simply reeks of incompetence) incapable of determining the true source of the messages.

ben174 5y ago
Exactly this. I thought this was common knowledge now. You can't ban a bad actor without truly knowing the source of content. Otherwise I can just sabotage my enemies.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Federal law requires political media to truthfully identify their origin.
- macksd 5y ago
  Federal law requires a lot of things, but that doesn't mean people comply. Robocalls are already illegal. Soliciting people on the Do Not Call List over the phone is already illegal. Yet they happen daily for me.
- mcherm 5y ago
  Are you saying that Federal law requires Verizon to truthfully identify the origin of spam text messages I receive? Because they are CLEARLY not doing that.

macksd 5y ago

Getting a call claiming to be from Trump's campaign asking for money doesn't even mean it's actually the Trump campaign, it could be anyone trying to get money from people who are passionate about Trump. And that's one of the problems here: unsolicited calls are real and problematic, unsolicited calls who aren't even from the person they appear to be are also real and even more problematic.

vineyardmike 5y ago

1. No there aren't 2. Its not like political campaigns are known following laws that do exist.