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Reading this and reading the comments I became aware again how lucky I am to be born in a place with strong customer protection and strong data protection laws.

Reading this and reading the comments I became aware again how lucky I am to be born in a place with strong customer protection and strong data protection laws. Wow. I imagine a dealership doing this here in Germany. Even repossession isn't that easy in Germany. In Germany, you have to go the official route and get the vehicle seized by the bailiff. Installing a tracking device without clear informed consent would go against the GDPR and be illegal.

qwertox 5y ago
Isn't it common now for our car manufacturers to store a log of GPS data in an ECU? I could have sworn I've once read about this around three years ago. This German article [0] from 2022-02-03 for example mentions cars storing some usage data: > In summary, it can be said that data is constantly being recorded for all cars, which allows conclusions to be drawn about the usage profile, the intensity of use, the number of drivers or even the driving style. A few examples of data evaluation and transmission: - Usage profile: Separate storage of the kilometers driven on the freeway, country roads and in the city Number of individual journeys, broken down by kilometers Charging and discharging cycles with time, date, mileage Utilization data of the combustion engine in plug-in hybrids Regular GPS data with status report of important vehicle data Hours of operation of the vehicle lights, separated according to individual light sources - Driving style: Number of electric belt tightenings (how often do you brake hard?) Entries for excessive engine speed or temperature (speeders) Charge and cell voltage of the drive battery Duration, how as long as the driver uses the various modes of the automatic transmission (continuous/manual/sport) - Intensity of use/number of drivers: Number of adjustments of the electric driver's seat (allows conclusions to be drawn about the number of drivers) Number of media inserted in the CD/DVD drive Duration and time d he phone calls -- [0] https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/ausstattung-technik-zubehoer/assistenzsysteme/daten-modernes-auto/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/ausstattung-technik-zu...
- sdoering 5y ago
  Thanks for the info. Would not have known this without your pointer. Can't imagine this being legal under GDPR. But as long as nobody goes to court over this (and I would have expected the ADAC doing this as it sees itself as a representative lobby group for German drivers). Interesting that they don't.
  - markus92 5y ago
    Storing it on the ECU is allowed as long as it isn't actually collected/used, right?
janandonly 5y ago
In the EU, there are several laws in the making or already enacted which will make it MANDATORY to detect speed limits [1] and slow down your car when it goes too fast. Also, collision data and maintenance data will be automatically transmitted in newly sold cars[2], [3]. [1] ISA, Intelligent Speed Assist: https://etsc.eu/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa/ https://etsc.eu/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa/ [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_impl/2022/163/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_impl/2022/163/oj [3] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2021/1244/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2021/1244/oj
- sdoering 5y ago
  Wow. Did not know this. Moving more and more in the wrong direction imho. Thanks for the links. Need to take a closer look.

qwertox 5y ago

Isn't it common now for our car manufacturers to store a log of GPS data in an ECU? I could have sworn I've once read about this around three years ago. This German article [0] from 2022-02-03 for example mentions cars storing some usage data: > In summary, it can be said that data is constantly being recorded for all cars, which allows conclusions to be drawn about the usage profile, the intensity of use, the number of drivers or even the driving style. A few examples of data evaluation and transmission: - Usage profile: Separate storage of the kilometers driven on the freeway, country roads and in the city Number of individual journeys, broken down by kilometers Charging and discharging cycles with time, date, mileage Utilization data of the combustion engine in plug-in hybrids Regular GPS data with status report of important vehicle data Hours of operation of the vehicle lights, separated according to individual light sources - Driving style: Number of electric belt tightenings (how often do you brake hard?) Entries for excessive engine speed or temperature (speeders) Charge and cell voltage of the drive battery Duration, how as long as the driver uses the various modes of the automatic transmission (continuous/manual/sport) - Intensity of use/number of drivers: Number of adjustments of the electric driver's seat (allows conclusions to be drawn about the number of drivers) Number of media inserted in the CD/DVD drive Duration and time d he phone calls -- [0] https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/ausstattung-technik-zubehoer/assistenzsysteme/daten-modernes-auto/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/ausstattung-technik-zu...

sdoering 5y ago
Thanks for the info. Would not have known this without your pointer. Can't imagine this being legal under GDPR. But as long as nobody goes to court over this (and I would have expected the ADAC doing this as it sees itself as a representative lobby group for German drivers). Interesting that they don't.
- markus92 5y ago
  Storing it on the ECU is allowed as long as it isn't actually collected/used, right?

janandonly 5y ago

In the EU, there are several laws in the making or already enacted which will make it MANDATORY to detect speed limits [1] and slow down your car when it goes too fast. Also, collision data and maintenance data will be automatically transmitted in newly sold cars[2], [3]. [1] ISA, Intelligent Speed Assist: https://etsc.eu/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa/ https://etsc.eu/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa/ [2] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_impl/2022/163/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_impl/2022/163/oj [3] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2021/1244/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2021/1244/oj

sdoering 5y ago
Wow. Did not know this. Moving more and more in the wrong direction imho. Thanks for the links. Need to take a closer look.