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This article title is FUD and the EFF is doing themselves a disservice in publishing this. The GPS tracking device had absolutely no connection to the individu

This article title is FUD and the EFF is doing themselves a disservice in publishing this. The GPS tracking device had absolutely no connection to the individual being an EFF supporter, and was in fact entirely benign (if unknown to the vehicle owner). What we need from the EFF: a serious discussion about anti-theft vehicle tracking and privacy (e.g. a list of brands/dealerships installing these devices, how/where to find them, how to disable them, which anti-theft GPS brands don't sell your location data) What we got: someone at the EFF learns about UART, called a car dealership, and wrote a clickbait title

danuker 5y ago
What we got: awareness about vehicle trackers and some tips on how to handle them. I believe awareness of technology is crucial for civil society. Sure it's got a clickbaity title, but it worked in getting HN on it.
- playpause 5y ago
  My sentiment towards the EFF just took a big tumble, probably permanently. Tricking and cheating people has costs as well as benefits. EDIT: I've had my faith restored. Added reply to a comment below.
  - teknopaul 5y ago
    A twist in the tail of a good story is not cheating, it's story telling. You wouldn't want the title of a film to have a spoiler. This article has a good story arc, and I enjoyed the read, and learnt something to boot.
  - danuker 5y ago
    I believe this speaks more about yourself than EFF. You are judging a 79-employee non-profit based on a single article from one of them. There's also the fact that the article did not cheat in any way, but reflected one's mindset while discovering such an issue. A bit of trickery, sure, but what's life without plot twists?
    - playpause 5y ago
      No, I'm not judging them, I just said my view of them took a tumble. When I feel tricked, I lose trust in whoever tricked me. And negative trust is often lasting. It's hard to gain trust and very easy to lose it. BUT: I didn't read the whole article. I read kogepathic's comment first, which gave away the twist and framed the headline as clickbait, and I went along with that. But I now see it's as you say. Lesson learned. I definitely don't think that writing an intriguing headline and delivering on it with a satisfying story counts as clickbait. Clickbait is something that fails to deliver at all, not something that delivers in a way you didn’t expect.
      - danuker 5y ago
        Thanks! For what it's worth, I had upvoted you so people going through your same thoughts see the counterarguments as well.
- wiz21c 5y ago
  yep EFF sound a bit paranoid on this one. But nonetheless, I'll double check my car seats !
  - danuker 5y ago
    It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. For example, a Tor Project contributor moved to Germany. https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb... The EFF is roughly in the same bucket - i.e. some interest from federal agencies due to empowering individuals relative to the state.
    - kragen 5y ago
      https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb... is about Isis Agora Lovecruft, but several other Tor developers have lived in Germany.
rob74 5y ago
If you want to read FUD into it, you can, but the fact is that (a) a person found a GPS tracker in her car and (b) she is an EFF supporter, which led her to contact them and get it examined. So the title is entirely justified, if a bit clickbaity. But to then say they should have refrained from publishing the article is exaggerated. Actually I was glad I read it and appalled that it seems to be routine for car dealerships to install GPS trackers in the cars of their customers without telling them. If the "clickbaity" title helps in getting more people to read the article and raising awareness of this issue, I say it's better than other clickbait articles that just try to increase some shady website's ad revenue.
- kogepathic 5y ago
  > But to then say they should have refrained from publishing the article is exaggerated. The article as-written provides almost no useful information apart from an anecdote about one person finding a GPS tracking device in their car and contacting the EFF. > Given how many people have been surprised to find this specific GPS tracker in their cars (as mentioned above) it’s possible that many car dealerships are installing these devices without proper customer notification. One person is mentioned in the article. If the EFF knows how widespread the installation of this tracking device is, why isn't this discussed? How many car dealerships did the EFF contact to find out if they install such devices? All the useful questions at the bottom of the article are unanswered: > Is the sky-link GPS device still sending location data back to a Sky Link server? If so, could it be accessed by an employee, or someone who activates the device in the future? Writing an article about a single individual who was not targeted: FUD Writing an article about how many cars these devices are installed in, what data they transmit, who the provider(s) sell your location data to: useful for privacy and policy discussions
  - teknopaul 5y ago
    They don't know "how many cars these devices are installed in" They did investigate "a single individual who was not targeted" You can't write an article about something you haven't done. They explain why they did it in the article. FUD is fear uncertainty and doubt, they did the exact opposite. Dispelled the FUD with an investigation. And then published it.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I think your comment is also a bit too harsh. The headline seems to indicate that an EFF member is being tracked, but it doesn't actually make that allegation, it just states a fact and the article explains how they found out it's probably benign.
- IMTDb 5y ago
  If it's just an irrelevant fact, don't put it in the title. In reality, the fact that we talk about an EFF member here should barely be mentioned at all as it's just an explanation on how the device was identified, but has no bearing on why it was installed, how it works, what's it's purpose etc, which is the real point of the article. Title should make a reasonable effort to summarise the content and allegation of the article. It's not the case here.
barnabee 5y ago
I don’t call a GPS tracker installed in a car without the owner’s knowledge or permission, and where it’s still unknown if it is now or ever has been or could later be activated (again perhaps without the owner’s knowledge) to send the car’s location to a third party “entirely benign”. I call that extremely worrying! I’d want to remove any such device from my car immediately.
ibejoeb 5y ago
Re: vehicle tracking and privacy standard in 2024, by U.S. law, is going to be pervasive tracking. It will include driver behavior analysis, perspiration and respiration sensors, and have intervention capabilities. This is all in HR 3684 Section 24220. Full text: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684... Relevant section: https://archive.ph/eMF8Y#toc-idb8cfafb0-6273-428e-a005-03391dcef318 https://archive.ph/eMF8Y#toc-idb8cfafb0-6273-428e-a005-03391... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29427068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29427068

danuker 5y ago

What we got: awareness about vehicle trackers and some tips on how to handle them. I believe awareness of technology is crucial for civil society. Sure it's got a clickbaity title, but it worked in getting HN on it.

playpause 5y ago
My sentiment towards the EFF just took a big tumble, probably permanently. Tricking and cheating people has costs as well as benefits. EDIT: I've had my faith restored. Added reply to a comment below.
- teknopaul 5y ago
  A twist in the tail of a good story is not cheating, it's story telling. You wouldn't want the title of a film to have a spoiler. This article has a good story arc, and I enjoyed the read, and learnt something to boot.
- danuker 5y ago
  I believe this speaks more about yourself than EFF. You are judging a 79-employee non-profit based on a single article from one of them. There's also the fact that the article did not cheat in any way, but reflected one's mindset while discovering such an issue. A bit of trickery, sure, but what's life without plot twists?
  - playpause 5y ago
    No, I'm not judging them, I just said my view of them took a tumble. When I feel tricked, I lose trust in whoever tricked me. And negative trust is often lasting. It's hard to gain trust and very easy to lose it. BUT: I didn't read the whole article. I read kogepathic's comment first, which gave away the twist and framed the headline as clickbait, and I went along with that. But I now see it's as you say. Lesson learned. I definitely don't think that writing an intriguing headline and delivering on it with a satisfying story counts as clickbait. Clickbait is something that fails to deliver at all, not something that delivers in a way you didn’t expect.
    - danuker 5y ago
      Thanks! For what it's worth, I had upvoted you so people going through your same thoughts see the counterarguments as well.
wiz21c 5y ago
yep EFF sound a bit paranoid on this one. But nonetheless, I'll double check my car seats !
- danuker 5y ago
  It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. For example, a Tor Project contributor moved to Germany. https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb... The EFF is roughly in the same bucket - i.e. some interest from federal agencies due to empowering individuals relative to the state.
  - kragen 5y ago
    https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fbi/ https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/17/technology/tor-developer-fb... is about Isis Agora Lovecruft, but several other Tor developers have lived in Germany.

rob74 5y ago

If you want to read FUD into it, you can, but the fact is that (a) a person found a GPS tracker in her car and (b) she is an EFF supporter, which led her to contact them and get it examined. So the title is entirely justified, if a bit clickbaity. But to then say they should have refrained from publishing the article is exaggerated. Actually I was glad I read it and appalled that it seems to be routine for car dealerships to install GPS trackers in the cars of their customers without telling them. If the "clickbaity" title helps in getting more people to read the article and raising awareness of this issue, I say it's better than other clickbait articles that just try to increase some shady website's ad revenue.

kogepathic 5y ago
> But to then say they should have refrained from publishing the article is exaggerated. The article as-written provides almost no useful information apart from an anecdote about one person finding a GPS tracking device in their car and contacting the EFF. > Given how many people have been surprised to find this specific GPS tracker in their cars (as mentioned above) it’s possible that many car dealerships are installing these devices without proper customer notification. One person is mentioned in the article. If the EFF knows how widespread the installation of this tracking device is, why isn't this discussed? How many car dealerships did the EFF contact to find out if they install such devices? All the useful questions at the bottom of the article are unanswered: > Is the sky-link GPS device still sending location data back to a Sky Link server? If so, could it be accessed by an employee, or someone who activates the device in the future? Writing an article about a single individual who was not targeted: FUD Writing an article about how many cars these devices are installed in, what data they transmit, who the provider(s) sell your location data to: useful for privacy and policy discussions
- teknopaul 5y ago
  They don't know "how many cars these devices are installed in" They did investigate "a single individual who was not targeted" You can't write an article about something you haven't done. They explain why they did it in the article. FUD is fear uncertainty and doubt, they did the exact opposite. Dispelled the FUD with an investigation. And then published it.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

I think your comment is also a bit too harsh. The headline seems to indicate that an EFF member is being tracked, but it doesn't actually make that allegation, it just states a fact and the article explains how they found out it's probably benign.

IMTDb 5y ago
If it's just an irrelevant fact, don't put it in the title. In reality, the fact that we talk about an EFF member here should barely be mentioned at all as it's just an explanation on how the device was identified, but has no bearing on why it was installed, how it works, what's it's purpose etc, which is the real point of the article. Title should make a reasonable effort to summarise the content and allegation of the article. It's not the case here.

barnabee 5y ago

I don’t call a GPS tracker installed in a car without the owner’s knowledge or permission, and where it’s still unknown if it is now or ever has been or could later be activated (again perhaps without the owner’s knowledge) to send the car’s location to a third party “entirely benign”. I call that extremely worrying! I’d want to remove any such device from my car immediately.

ibejoeb 5y ago

Re: vehicle tracking and privacy standard in 2024, by U.S. law, is going to be pervasive tracking. It will include driver behavior analysis, perspiration and respiration sensors, and have intervention capabilities. This is all in HR 3684 Section 24220. Full text: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684... Relevant section: https://archive.ph/eMF8Y#toc-idb8cfafb0-6273-428e-a005-03391dcef318 https://archive.ph/eMF8Y#toc-idb8cfafb0-6273-428e-a005-03391... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29427068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29427068