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Eink is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the panels.

archerx 5y ago
No they're not that expensive, I bought a 7 color epaper panel for 60$ for a e-comic book project. You could make one of these frames and save 400-500$ https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/13.3inch-e-paper-hat.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/13.3inch-... ^ Here is a 13inch high resolution epaper screen that I found.
- goosedragons 5y ago
  They are expensive compared to traditional LCDs, you can easily buy a portable 13" 1080p monitor that includes all the parts to hook it up to a computer, a plastic case etc. for less than $200. Heck you can even get a 2560x1600 one for less than $200 taking a quick peek at Amazon.
  - m-p-3 5y ago
    The economies of scale applies here: E-Ink panels certainly don't have the same scale in term of sales compared to LCD though, and I don't see this changing at the consumer level.
robinsoh 5y ago
> Eink is just really expensive I am curious what volumes you are buying and which panels and how you're judging whether something is expensive or not. > I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the panels. I would ask that these repeated claims would come with some evidence. The previous times I asked the respondents just did patents.google.com/search?eink and treated that as evidence. For an analogy, if I said something like: Coca cola is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the syrup. or Windows is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the operating system. would you feel my claim was accurate?
- robinsoh 5y ago
  I notice downvotes on my comment. I wonder if the downvoters would explain why they feel my comment is somehow bad?
- mdorazio 5y ago
  Seems pretty obvious that it's expensive compared to the alternatives. Which in this case are regular LCD panels. Yes I know, the use cases are slightly different, power consumption is much lower, etc. etc. Doesn't matter - most people want to use an e-ink display to... display stuff on a screen, which they can get in the LCD variety for a fraction of the price.
  - robinsoh 5y ago
    > Seems pretty obvious that it's expensive compared to the alternatives. That statement is not obvious to me. You are comparing electrophoretic panels to LCD panels. Both are display technologies. But that's where the similarities end. The volumes are many orders of magnitude different. LCDs would be billions of displays per month. Electrophoretics would be at best 20 million displays a YEAR! > Which in this case are regular LCD panels. Yes I know, the use cases are slightly different, power consumption is much lower, etc. etc. Doesn't matter - most people want to use an e-ink display to... display stuff on a screen, which they can get in the LCD variety for a fraction of the price. Yes, you can get coca cola for a fraction of the price of a Chablis wine. But you realize why one costs more than the other right? I think most people here just aren't taking time to understand the display industry.
- 5560675260 5y ago
  > would you feel my claim was accurate? No, because Coca-cola isn't expensive - it costs about as much soft drinks produced by other companies. Furthermore I don't believe that there are any relevant patents left - its formula is a trade secret. IMO if this was the case with e-ink - we would see much better adoption and prices. Is Windows expensive right now? I don't know how much exactly vendors pay to install it on hardware before sale. But I do know that Windows beats free alternatives (FreeDOS, Linux), so it's at least not unreasonably/prohibitively expensive. Furthermore Windows price is justified by its great advantage over competitors - huge ecosystem of software. Can the same be said about E ink? It's worse than literal paper for static images, worse than LCD for dynamic content. There is a niche for content that sometimes has to change, like on price tags, but those screens are significantly cheaper than what we're complaining about in this thread.

archerx 5y ago

No they're not that expensive, I bought a 7 color epaper panel for 60$ for a e-comic book project. You could make one of these frames and save 400-500$ https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/13.3inch-e-paper-hat.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/13.3inch-... ^ Here is a 13inch high resolution epaper screen that I found.

goosedragons 5y ago
They are expensive compared to traditional LCDs, you can easily buy a portable 13" 1080p monitor that includes all the parts to hook it up to a computer, a plastic case etc. for less than $200. Heck you can even get a 2560x1600 one for less than $200 taking a quick peek at Amazon.
- m-p-3 5y ago
  The economies of scale applies here: E-Ink panels certainly don't have the same scale in term of sales compared to LCD though, and I don't see this changing at the consumer level.

robinsoh 5y ago

> Eink is just really expensive I am curious what volumes you are buying and which panels and how you're judging whether something is expensive or not. > I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the panels. I would ask that these repeated claims would come with some evidence. The previous times I asked the respondents just did patents.google.com/search?eink and treated that as evidence. For an analogy, if I said something like: Coca cola is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the syrup. or Windows is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the operating system. would you feel my claim was accurate?

robinsoh 5y ago
I notice downvotes on my comment. I wonder if the downvoters would explain why they feel my comment is somehow bad?
mdorazio 5y ago
Seems pretty obvious that it's expensive compared to the alternatives. Which in this case are regular LCD panels. Yes I know, the use cases are slightly different, power consumption is much lower, etc. etc. Doesn't matter - most people want to use an e-ink display to... display stuff on a screen, which they can get in the LCD variety for a fraction of the price.
- robinsoh 5y ago
  > Seems pretty obvious that it's expensive compared to the alternatives. That statement is not obvious to me. You are comparing electrophoretic panels to LCD panels. Both are display technologies. But that's where the similarities end. The volumes are many orders of magnitude different. LCDs would be billions of displays per month. Electrophoretics would be at best 20 million displays a YEAR! > Which in this case are regular LCD panels. Yes I know, the use cases are slightly different, power consumption is much lower, etc. etc. Doesn't matter - most people want to use an e-ink display to... display stuff on a screen, which they can get in the LCD variety for a fraction of the price. Yes, you can get coca cola for a fraction of the price of a Chablis wine. But you realize why one costs more than the other right? I think most people here just aren't taking time to understand the display industry.
5560675260 5y ago
> would you feel my claim was accurate? No, because Coca-cola isn't expensive - it costs about as much soft drinks produced by other companies. Furthermore I don't believe that there are any relevant patents left - its formula is a trade secret. IMO if this was the case with e-ink - we would see much better adoption and prices. Is Windows expensive right now? I don't know how much exactly vendors pay to install it on hardware before sale. But I do know that Windows beats free alternatives (FreeDOS, Linux), so it's at least not unreasonably/prohibitively expensive. Furthermore Windows price is justified by its great advantage over competitors - huge ecosystem of software. Can the same be said about E ink? It's worse than literal paper for static images, worse than LCD for dynamic content. There is a niche for content that sometimes has to change, like on price tags, but those screens are significantly cheaper than what we're complaining about in this thread.