5 ms·

Ask HN: Would you live on universal basic income to have total creative freedom?

17 points by amichail 5y ago

And would you do this indefinitely even if your solo indie projects fail to make significant money?

KeyXiote 5y ago
Yes. UBI could provide a framwork to work side projects that don't succeed monitarily but provide a learning experience for the next project. Collaboration with other UBI creators from multiple diciplines is key, in my opinion for a succesfull project depending on goals and scope. Create self imvestment with exploration and experiencial education. UBI shouldnt necessarily be a paycheck, I find that the security of a private living and working space as well as in incone of food, healthcare etc. Supplimented monitary standards with increases depending on economics and project success.
ge96 5y ago
Yes. It is my dream to be free (sleep anytime primarily) and just hack on things. Live somewhere remote with land/some water. This assumes I can still buy things like electronics/tools for the project. It's not a dream I'm working towards it just slow.
HSbF6 5y ago
100% The music project I'm working on right now requires significant investments in time and effort. A considerable weight would lift off of my shoulders if I didn't have to think about being able to pay my rent and food.
VoodooJuJu 5y ago
Absolutely
simne 5y ago
To be honest, it is hard to refuse free things. But I prefer to work part time on simple non-prestigious jobs, to fill my needs, to be independent, and all other time work on future projects. This is not only question of pride, but this is absolutely other view on world. And I could only be responsible for my own behavior. For others, I know from experience, that large percent of people play fair, but not all, and need some measures against those people, who don't want to play fair. Who interested, google free-rider problem.
burntoutfire 5y ago
I am already doing that, but I provided the money myself (by saving and then retiring early at 40).
arrakis2021 5y ago
No. I love work. It gives me a sense of pride to do a good job. I was happy serving burgers at McDonald’s. I took pride in making a good sandwich. Now I’m happy in tech. I would never want to not work in tech.
- tkiolp4 5y ago
  You mean working for others? If I had a universal basic income I would still “work” in tech… but not building software as an employee on a company I couldn’t care less for; I would work in tech building stuff I care for (so I would work for myself).
Nxtds 5y ago
Honestly I don't feel free when I am dependent on someone else/org/govt/grandma giving me pocket money. Just very uneasy all the time that the spigot can be turned off any moment. Its usually only after I have saved up a bit, do I feel more free.
- hotpotamus 5y ago
  You know, it occurs to me that I've only ever been dependent upon other people for money, though not in the sense you probably mean. In some sense, I've worked for the vast majority of money I've been given, but at the end of the day, the check came from someone.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
krapp 5y ago
Assuming I could also pay off my student and car loans? Absolutely.
schwartzworld 5y ago
If I could live off ubi, I would still build software, but it would be the software I want to build and not the one that pays the most.
rektide 5y ago
I'd like to alternate between professional & my hopeful open source projects. I don't think UBI would give me the quality of life I'd like, but it would definitely help me carve out & spend more seasons & years of my life doing the really really ultra-high grade important & hopeful Personal Computing Revolution shit I want to get up to.
anm89 5y ago
At what standard living? I somehow doubt that any UBI is going to provide more than a poverty level of existence. I'm not trying to live in a hovel with three roommates so I can avoid paid work. If the UBI was enough to provide a good standard of living, it wouldn't remain that way for long as the inflation would hit incredibly hard probably very quickly.
- webmaven 5y ago
  Well, IMO the biggest problem with poverty is precarity; the fear of losing what little you do have and ending up homeless. UBI at a level that just afforded stability and the bare necessities would be a huge boon to society.
9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago
Yes.
aynyc 5y ago
Probably. Honestly, if America has universal health care, I probably would cut down my work significantly and focus on things that I like to do.
dTal 5y ago
Why decide now? The whole point is that I would have the freedom to start and stop, as I wished. Maybe I'd get into a good, useful routine on Basic. Maybe I'd get itchy feet and start a company, or crave structure and get a 9-to-5. Who knows?
tamaharbor 5y ago
If everyone is on universal basic income…. Where would the money come from? Who will do the work? Wouldn’t that be extremely inflationary?
- somehowlinux 5y ago
  No. It wouldn't. Look in to Ontario preliminary results before it was cancelled by the current conservative government. The vast majority of people under ubi chose to use the opportunity to re-educate themselves to raise their position in society.
- elviejo 5y ago
  Robots doing most of the manual labor.
- muzani 5y ago
  The idea behind it is to let the rich become even richer... and then tax them more. It benefits VCs over all, because it lets everyone take super high risks but isn't paid out of some seed investor's pocket. Seed stage VCs like Y Combinator and 500 Startups have used the model pretty well, it's just trying to scale it to more people. Inflation is a whole other story, but it's controlled by the federal reserve. Generally the goal of the Fed is to keep unemployment low and prevent recessions. Inflation is a tool. Economy isn't about gold or cash or value of that cash; it's about GDP and political stability. When inflation increases, people spend money rather than storing it, fueling more growth. When growth is healthy, they bring inflation back down to close to 0%. So the Fed can stimulate the economy by printing more money. Inflation hurts, but it's all on purpose, a stick that predictably move the donkeys. UBI... makes the concept of unemployment weird, but it serves the purpose of making things more stable.
Jxl180 5y ago
Absolutely not simply because I don’t like a basic lifestyle. I love snowboarding in Colorado or going to Broadway shows in NYC. I love my Tesla and treating myself to concerts and sporting events. I eat out for nearly every meal. A basic income won’t suit my lifestyle.
- cplusplusfellow 5y ago
  But wouldn’t you want to eat basic hard tack the rest of your life if it meant you got to drink unicorn tears at every meal? These questions posed about UBI never fail to promise the impossible (your ultimate happiness/freedom) in exchange for something equally impossible (a basic income sufficient to meet even the most austere of needs). I yawn.
Proven 5y ago
t-3 5y ago
Absolutely. I have no ambitions though, and don't desire anything special out of life. I doubt many feel the same.
- desertraven 5y ago
  I feel similarly. Though this has come about after years of yearning for a special life. Eventually I let go of that, and found life much more peaceful and less strained. Admittedly of late, it’s creeping back somewhat (old habits I suppose), but nothing like it was.
gxt 5y ago
If everyone is on UBI, then who is getting the work done? Seems to me there needs to be some more constraints on the idea to be realistic. Maybe Strategic Basic Income? Eg: Executive branch gets coal miners on it for X years to let them retrain to work in another industry? Or Universal Income Grant? Everyone gets X years no questions asked, you choose when to check them out. When you run out, sucks to be you. I'd much rather have that last one as an option than UBI that's not going to motivate me to do anything by removing the natural urgency of scarcity. When everything is abundant and easy, why change?
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  People who want to earn more than UBI are getting the work done. Also if you believe most work is now bullshit jobs, and a lot of UBI-ers will be say giving their kids, parents, etc. more time and care, then this kind of directs money away from BS towards non-BS. For example BS is another say VP of internet junk food delivery marketing, whose top customer is the VC funneling printed money. Non-BS is someone growing veggies because they have the time, and chatting to the 80 year old next door who loves the company.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    So prices of everything will rise and nobody on UBI can afford anything?
    - BizarroLand 5y ago
      I'm of the mindset that if UBI were passed, prices for basic living would stabilize around whatever UBI is set to. If it was $20,000 USD, then a 1 bedroom apartment (theoretically shared between 2 cohabitating people) would run $40,000/12/3 = $1,111/month on average when companies set a requirement of needing 3 times your rent in income. That would leave the layabout small 2 person family about $2,200/month for food, fun and other expenses, and then there would be an incentive for them to have children as each child would add $20,000/yr to their income, allowing giving birth to be an effective means of upward mobility up to a certain point.

17 points by amichail 5y ago

And would you do this indefinitely even if your solo indie projects fail to make significant money?

Yes. UBI could provide a framwork to work side projects that don't succeed monitarily but provide a learning experience for the next project. Collaboration with other UBI creators from multiple diciplines is key, in my opinion for a succesfull project depending on goals and scope. Create self imvestment with exploration and experiencial education. UBI shouldnt necessarily be a paycheck, I find that the security of a private living and working space as well as in incone of food, healthcare etc. Supplimented monitary standards with increases depending on economics and project success.

ge96 5y ago

Yes. It is my dream to be free (sleep anytime primarily) and just hack on things. Live somewhere remote with land/some water. This assumes I can still buy things like electronics/tools for the project. It's not a dream I'm working towards it just slow.

HSbF6 5y ago

100% The music project I'm working on right now requires significant investments in time and effort. A considerable weight would lift off of my shoulders if I didn't have to think about being able to pay my rent and food.

VoodooJuJu 5y ago

Absolutely

simne 5y ago

To be honest, it is hard to refuse free things. But I prefer to work part time on simple non-prestigious jobs, to fill my needs, to be independent, and all other time work on future projects. This is not only question of pride, but this is absolutely other view on world. And I could only be responsible for my own behavior. For others, I know from experience, that large percent of people play fair, but not all, and need some measures against those people, who don't want to play fair. Who interested, google free-rider problem.

burntoutfire 5y ago

I am already doing that, but I provided the money myself (by saving and then retiring early at 40).

arrakis2021 5y ago

No. I love work. It gives me a sense of pride to do a good job. I was happy serving burgers at McDonald’s. I took pride in making a good sandwich. Now I’m happy in tech. I would never want to not work in tech.

tkiolp4 5y ago
You mean working for others? If I had a universal basic income I would still “work” in tech… but not building software as an employee on a company I couldn’t care less for; I would work in tech building stuff I care for (so I would work for myself).

Nxtds 5y ago

Honestly I don't feel free when I am dependent on someone else/org/govt/grandma giving me pocket money. Just very uneasy all the time that the spigot can be turned off any moment. Its usually only after I have saved up a bit, do I feel more free.

hotpotamus 5y ago
You know, it occurs to me that I've only ever been dependent upon other people for money, though not in the sense you probably mean. In some sense, I've worked for the vast majority of money I've been given, but at the end of the day, the check came from someone.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

krapp 5y ago

Assuming I could also pay off my student and car loans? Absolutely.

schwartzworld 5y ago

If I could live off ubi, I would still build software, but it would be the software I want to build and not the one that pays the most.

rektide 5y ago

I'd like to alternate between professional & my hopeful open source projects. I don't think UBI would give me the quality of life I'd like, but it would definitely help me carve out & spend more seasons & years of my life doing the really really ultra-high grade important & hopeful Personal Computing Revolution shit I want to get up to.

anm89 5y ago

At what standard living? I somehow doubt that any UBI is going to provide more than a poverty level of existence. I'm not trying to live in a hovel with three roommates so I can avoid paid work. If the UBI was enough to provide a good standard of living, it wouldn't remain that way for long as the inflation would hit incredibly hard probably very quickly.

webmaven 5y ago
Well, IMO the biggest problem with poverty is precarity; the fear of losing what little you do have and ending up homeless. UBI at a level that just afforded stability and the bare necessities would be a huge boon to society.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 5y ago

Yes.

aynyc 5y ago

Probably. Honestly, if America has universal health care, I probably would cut down my work significantly and focus on things that I like to do.

dTal 5y ago

Why decide now? The whole point is that I would have the freedom to start and stop, as I wished. Maybe I'd get into a good, useful routine on Basic. Maybe I'd get itchy feet and start a company, or crave structure and get a 9-to-5. Who knows?

tamaharbor 5y ago

If everyone is on universal basic income…. Where would the money come from? Who will do the work? Wouldn’t that be extremely inflationary?

somehowlinux 5y ago
No. It wouldn't. Look in to Ontario preliminary results before it was cancelled by the current conservative government. The vast majority of people under ubi chose to use the opportunity to re-educate themselves to raise their position in society.
elviejo 5y ago
Robots doing most of the manual labor.
muzani 5y ago
The idea behind it is to let the rich become even richer... and then tax them more. It benefits VCs over all, because it lets everyone take super high risks but isn't paid out of some seed investor's pocket. Seed stage VCs like Y Combinator and 500 Startups have used the model pretty well, it's just trying to scale it to more people. Inflation is a whole other story, but it's controlled by the federal reserve. Generally the goal of the Fed is to keep unemployment low and prevent recessions. Inflation is a tool. Economy isn't about gold or cash or value of that cash; it's about GDP and political stability. When inflation increases, people spend money rather than storing it, fueling more growth. When growth is healthy, they bring inflation back down to close to 0%. So the Fed can stimulate the economy by printing more money. Inflation hurts, but it's all on purpose, a stick that predictably move the donkeys. UBI... makes the concept of unemployment weird, but it serves the purpose of making things more stable.

Jxl180 5y ago

Absolutely not simply because I don’t like a basic lifestyle. I love snowboarding in Colorado or going to Broadway shows in NYC. I love my Tesla and treating myself to concerts and sporting events. I eat out for nearly every meal. A basic income won’t suit my lifestyle.

cplusplusfellow 5y ago
But wouldn’t you want to eat basic hard tack the rest of your life if it meant you got to drink unicorn tears at every meal? These questions posed about UBI never fail to promise the impossible (your ultimate happiness/freedom) in exchange for something equally impossible (a basic income sufficient to meet even the most austere of needs). I yawn.

Proven 5y ago

t-3 5y ago

Absolutely. I have no ambitions though, and don't desire anything special out of life. I doubt many feel the same.

desertraven 5y ago
I feel similarly. Though this has come about after years of yearning for a special life. Eventually I let go of that, and found life much more peaceful and less strained. Admittedly of late, it’s creeping back somewhat (old habits I suppose), but nothing like it was.

gxt 5y ago

If everyone is on UBI, then who is getting the work done? Seems to me there needs to be some more constraints on the idea to be realistic. Maybe Strategic Basic Income? Eg: Executive branch gets coal miners on it for X years to let them retrain to work in another industry? Or Universal Income Grant? Everyone gets X years no questions asked, you choose when to check them out. When you run out, sucks to be you. I'd much rather have that last one as an option than UBI that's not going to motivate me to do anything by removing the natural urgency of scarcity. When everything is abundant and easy, why change?

quickthrower2 5y ago
People who want to earn more than UBI are getting the work done. Also if you believe most work is now bullshit jobs, and a lot of UBI-ers will be say giving their kids, parents, etc. more time and care, then this kind of directs money away from BS towards non-BS. For example BS is another say VP of internet junk food delivery marketing, whose top customer is the VC funneling printed money. Non-BS is someone growing veggies because they have the time, and chatting to the 80 year old next door who loves the company.
- emteycz 5y ago
  So prices of everything will rise and nobody on UBI can afford anything?
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    I'm of the mindset that if UBI were passed, prices for basic living would stabilize around whatever UBI is set to. If it was $20,000 USD, then a 1 bedroom apartment (theoretically shared between 2 cohabitating people) would run $40,000/12/3 = $1,111/month on average when companies set a requirement of needing 3 times your rent in income. That would leave the layabout small 2 person family about $2,200/month for food, fun and other expenses, and then there would be an incentive for them to have children as each child would add $20,000/yr to their income, allowing giving birth to be an effective means of upward mobility up to a certain point.