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> The heritability of IQ, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in IQ. Do you have a citation

> The heritability of IQ, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in IQ. Do you have a citation for this?

notservile 5y ago
The research on IQ heritability is abundant. You’ll get death threats if you point out the research though. It’s inconvenient and correlates with SAT performance. Hence the big push to get rid of the SAT to try to hide the disparities in general cognition within groups and between groups. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-biosocial-science/article/abs/social-mobility-and-iq-components/EA9C417B74DD404D48E3ABC49058CCDE https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-biosocial...
- whynotminot 5y ago
  I was asking more about class divides becoming IQ based. Do you have a citation for that.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    That's the whole thesis of The Bell Curve and also Coming Apart, both works by Charles Murray. There's plenty of citations in those works as well. Edit: but beyond that, IQ-based class divides seems like a rather logical consequence of the following: 1. The heritability of IQ 2. Assortative mating 3. IQ being a significant determining factor of success in a given society
    - whynotminot 5y ago
      Maybe. I'm just more than a little skeptical given that GP has a scant post history, and spends his other posts railing on about CRT being marxism. There's a lot of people pedaling this kind of IQ stuff to justify blatant racism, so you'll forgive me for wanting to see the data and not just letting statements like that fly by unchallenged.
      - lliamander 5y ago
        > Maybe. I'm just more than a little skeptical given that GP has a scant post history, and spends his other posts railing on about CRT being marxism. I do think the comments about CRT were a bit off-topic from this discussion. However, I do agree that CRT is Marxist and I doubt the original formulators of CRT would object to that characterization. The people I've seen most vigorously object to that characterization have been classic Marxists who object that CRT rejects the materialism of Marxism. From just about every other perspective, there is a great deal of overlap. > There's a lot of people pedaling this kind of IQ stuff to justify blatant racism, so you'll forgive me for wanting to see the data and not just letting statements like that fly by unchallenged. Fair enough. However, most of the misinformation about IQ is coming from the skeptics of IQ[1]. I'm aware that IQ research is sometimes used by racists, but that's only possible because certain political interests have done their level best to make IQ as radioactive as possible. It makes it hard for anyone not already on the fringes of society to engage in the research. [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/
        runarberg 5y ago
        To be frank IQ research is getting less and less relevant, and I suspect it has less to do with politics, and more to do with the fact that it has failed to further our understanding of human behavior and the human mind for the past 80 years. Much more interesting research has come from other fields of psychology, including (in order of peak popularity) behaviorism, cognitive psychology, social psychology, neuro-psychology. Unlike IQ works from these fields have made predictions in unrelated fields and inspired lasting paradigm shifts inside psychology. For example social psychology has provided very useful constructs used in economy, behaviorism in criminology, neuro-psychology in medicine, cognitive psychology in computer science etc. Scientifically IQ is a dead end. It only makes predictions inside the field of psychometrics, it correlates only with related constructs, the only place where it is used in an unrelated field is when racists are trying to excuse ludicrous statements. Note: This is not entirely true. IQ was (is?) used to assess cognitive disability in individuals, but today we have a lot better tools for that (thanks to cognitive and neuro-psychology), so it’s usefulness has been surpassed by other fields.

> The heritability of IQ, combined with assortative mating, means that increasingly class divides are forming around differences in IQ. Do you have a citation for this?

notservile 5y ago

The research on IQ heritability is abundant. You’ll get death threats if you point out the research though. It’s inconvenient and correlates with SAT performance. Hence the big push to get rid of the SAT to try to hide the disparities in general cognition within groups and between groups. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-biosocial-science/article/abs/social-mobility-and-iq-components/EA9C417B74DD404D48E3ABC49058CCDE https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-biosocial...

whynotminot 5y ago
I was asking more about class divides becoming IQ based. Do you have a citation for that.
- lliamander 5y ago
  That's the whole thesis of The Bell Curve and also Coming Apart, both works by Charles Murray. There's plenty of citations in those works as well. Edit: but beyond that, IQ-based class divides seems like a rather logical consequence of the following: 1. The heritability of IQ 2. Assortative mating 3. IQ being a significant determining factor of success in a given society
  - whynotminot 5y ago
    Maybe. I'm just more than a little skeptical given that GP has a scant post history, and spends his other posts railing on about CRT being marxism. There's a lot of people pedaling this kind of IQ stuff to justify blatant racism, so you'll forgive me for wanting to see the data and not just letting statements like that fly by unchallenged.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      > Maybe. I'm just more than a little skeptical given that GP has a scant post history, and spends his other posts railing on about CRT being marxism. I do think the comments about CRT were a bit off-topic from this discussion. However, I do agree that CRT is Marxist and I doubt the original formulators of CRT would object to that characterization. The people I've seen most vigorously object to that characterization have been classic Marxists who object that CRT rejects the materialism of Marxism. From just about every other perspective, there is a great deal of overlap. > There's a lot of people pedaling this kind of IQ stuff to justify blatant racism, so you'll forgive me for wanting to see the data and not just letting statements like that fly by unchallenged. Fair enough. However, most of the misinformation about IQ is coming from the skeptics of IQ[1]. I'm aware that IQ research is sometimes used by racists, but that's only possible because certain political interests have done their level best to make IQ as radioactive as possible. It makes it hard for anyone not already on the fringes of society to engage in the research. [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/
      - runarberg 5y ago
        To be frank IQ research is getting less and less relevant, and I suspect it has less to do with politics, and more to do with the fact that it has failed to further our understanding of human behavior and the human mind for the past 80 years. Much more interesting research has come from other fields of psychology, including (in order of peak popularity) behaviorism, cognitive psychology, social psychology, neuro-psychology. Unlike IQ works from these fields have made predictions in unrelated fields and inspired lasting paradigm shifts inside psychology. For example social psychology has provided very useful constructs used in economy, behaviorism in criminology, neuro-psychology in medicine, cognitive psychology in computer science etc. Scientifically IQ is a dead end. It only makes predictions inside the field of psychometrics, it correlates only with related constructs, the only place where it is used in an unrelated field is when racists are trying to excuse ludicrous statements. Note: This is not entirely true. IQ was (is?) used to assess cognitive disability in individuals, but today we have a lot better tools for that (thanks to cognitive and neuro-psychology), so it’s usefulness has been surpassed by other fields.