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Unpopular opinion: SAT/ACT correlates with X where X = IQ × work ethic

by rafale 5y ago

danans 5y ago
That opinion is unpopular because it is incomplete. SAT/ACT scores correlate with lots of things, not just IQ and work ethic. Another huge correlation is with family income: https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2021/9/28/is-income-implicit-in-measures-of-student-ability#:~:text=SAT%20math%20and%20ACT%20scores,ranging%20from%200.06%20to%200.10 https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2021/9/28/is-in....
- bzbarsky 5y ago
  Yes, but is that correlation after controlling for IQ and work ethic? Because family income correlates with IQ and work ethic... As far as I can tell, the thing the SAT really correlates with most is the thing it's actually designed to predict: ability to succeed in college, as measured by college GPA. (In particular, the correlation between college GPA and SAT score is higher than between college GPA and high school GPA.)
- rory 5y ago
  ~.2 isn't really "huge".. Your source shows that the SAT is much more strongly correlated with other measures of aptitude. The SAT does indeed correlate slightly more strongly with income than the AFQT does, which could show the "gaming" of the test. Only a ~.03 stronger correlation though. Not particularly dramatic.
jdmichal 5y ago
I had a high school teacher that liked to say the following: You can be smart and lazy and do fine. You can be dim and hard-working and do fine. But smart and hard-working will always beat them both. I was pretty clearly in the smart and lazy camp, and was OK with that lot. And, as he said, I've done fine. EDIT: I should add, though, that I'm very happy the SAT did not have the writing section when I took it. I severely doubt it would have improved my relative score.
tomatowurst 5y ago
Having a high IQ means you can probably retain information better with less effort but for the vast majority of students, its a question of consistent work ethic. Important to differentiate places like South Korea has a massive privatized cram schools where it does a fantastic job of creating high scorers but because it is scaled, it means if you are not paying extra and spending ridiculous time in privatized cram schools, you are almost certainly going to fail unless you can rely on some innate genius. Here in this case, it is truly discriminating students based on the economic capacity of their parents and it has the highest houshold debt not only from real estate but from debt to finance the young into educational hell. Another unpopular opinion: Unhappiness correlates with high IQ if a proper outlet is not met due to a variety of factors.

Unpopular opinion: SAT/ACT correlates with X where X = IQ × work ethic

by rafale 5y ago

Unpopular opinion: SAT/ACT correlates with X where X = IQ × work ethic

That opinion is unpopular because it is incomplete. SAT/ACT scores correlate with lots of things, not just IQ and work ethic. Another huge correlation is with family income: https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2021/9/28/is-income-implicit-in-measures-of-student-ability#:~:text=SAT%20math%20and%20ACT%20scores,ranging%20from%200.06%20to%200.10 https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2021/9/28/is-in....

bzbarsky 5y ago
Yes, but is that correlation after controlling for IQ and work ethic? Because family income correlates with IQ and work ethic... As far as I can tell, the thing the SAT really correlates with most is the thing it's actually designed to predict: ability to succeed in college, as measured by college GPA. (In particular, the correlation between college GPA and SAT score is higher than between college GPA and high school GPA.)
rory 5y ago
~.2 isn't really "huge".. Your source shows that the SAT is much more strongly correlated with other measures of aptitude. The SAT does indeed correlate slightly more strongly with income than the AFQT does, which could show the "gaming" of the test. Only a ~.03 stronger correlation though. Not particularly dramatic.

jdmichal 5y ago

I had a high school teacher that liked to say the following: You can be smart and lazy and do fine. You can be dim and hard-working and do fine. But smart and hard-working will always beat them both. I was pretty clearly in the smart and lazy camp, and was OK with that lot. And, as he said, I've done fine. EDIT: I should add, though, that I'm very happy the SAT did not have the writing section when I took it. I severely doubt it would have improved my relative score.

tomatowurst 5y ago

Having a high IQ means you can probably retain information better with less effort but for the vast majority of students, its a question of consistent work ethic. Important to differentiate places like South Korea has a massive privatized cram schools where it does a fantastic job of creating high scorers but because it is scaled, it means if you are not paying extra and spending ridiculous time in privatized cram schools, you are almost certainly going to fail unless you can rely on some innate genius. Here in this case, it is truly discriminating students based on the economic capacity of their parents and it has the highest houshold debt not only from real estate but from debt to finance the young into educational hell. Another unpopular opinion: Unhappiness correlates with high IQ if a proper outlet is not met due to a variety of factors.