4 ms·

Do you honestly believe that if you were from a very poor town, poor by the standards of african american neighborhoods in Detroit, that giving your child a $35

Do you honestly believe that if you were from a very poor town, poor by the standards of african american neighborhoods in Detroit, that giving your child a $35 practice book would have a similar outcome?

zozbot234 5y ago
Those places are sadly lacking even in the most basic standards of education, so their potential ACT scores are frankly irrelevant as is admission to MIT. You gotta learn to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.
- runarberg 5y ago
  Not only is this analogy wrong (there are plenty of animals that run the moment they are born) but it is also deeply insensitive. The reason people do worse from underprivileged is not only the lack of quality education, but a fundamental difference in the quality of life. Everything from the diet, to available time, and noise pollution, all makes a difference on education level. Our education system relies heavily on outside help, and poorer neighborhoods often don’t have the time and energy to give their kids even the most basic help with their homework.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > Everything from the diet, to available time, and noise pollution, all makes a difference on education level. Our education system relies heavily on outside help, and poorer neighborhoods often don’t have the time and energy to give their kids even the most basic help with their homework. Well said. Thanks for elaborating on my point.
  - david38 5y ago
    The analogy is correct because we’re talking about people. Parents are the primary educators. When they aren’t educating, or need to educate on too many other things, academics suffer. This is news to nobody. It would be highly suspicious if environment had no influence on educational outcomes.
AtlasBarfed 5y ago
My experience with "10 Sample SATs" which was my only prep was about 500 points of improvement. IIRC I was about a 1050-1100 on my first, and my best V/M combo was 1450 (back in early 90s, so pre-recentering). I actually did about 1380, I had a so-so actual one. It probably is the best bang for the buck, if you're already 1-2 standard deviations on general intelligence. Because the test is a game like admissions is a game, so if you're smart enough to see the game, it's easier and most effective to practice with that. For the "normals", I have no idea if it will work. But we're specifically discussing MIT, who do NOT want normals, I'm not good enough. They want 2-3 standard deviations people. MIT should be able to weight for socioeconomic and location/environment given the amount of information required for financial aid and "the internet". If this becomes ubiquitous, I can see suburbanites getting ghetto apartments for the address to game the weights :-)
david38 5y ago
My mother was an orphan at 15 in Honduras. When she had me, she shared a 400 square foot house with six of her sisters. Look up the crime stats for Honduras and try again. Also, looking at the very worst situations is not a valid argument. By that rational, what about the poor girl who is kept a sex slave in her basement by her father for twenty years? Do you think sending your African American example to SAT prep will make a difference? Coming from the poorest and sketchiest towns in America? Such a child would likely be better served by starting at a community college. After that, SATs are not accepted.

zozbot234 5y ago

Those places are sadly lacking even in the most basic standards of education, so their potential ACT scores are frankly irrelevant as is admission to MIT. You gotta learn to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run.

runarberg 5y ago
Not only is this analogy wrong (there are plenty of animals that run the moment they are born) but it is also deeply insensitive. The reason people do worse from underprivileged is not only the lack of quality education, but a fundamental difference in the quality of life. Everything from the diet, to available time, and noise pollution, all makes a difference on education level. Our education system relies heavily on outside help, and poorer neighborhoods often don’t have the time and energy to give their kids even the most basic help with their homework.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > Everything from the diet, to available time, and noise pollution, all makes a difference on education level. Our education system relies heavily on outside help, and poorer neighborhoods often don’t have the time and energy to give their kids even the most basic help with their homework. Well said. Thanks for elaborating on my point.
- david38 5y ago
  The analogy is correct because we’re talking about people. Parents are the primary educators. When they aren’t educating, or need to educate on too many other things, academics suffer. This is news to nobody. It would be highly suspicious if environment had no influence on educational outcomes.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago

My experience with "10 Sample SATs" which was my only prep was about 500 points of improvement. IIRC I was about a 1050-1100 on my first, and my best V/M combo was 1450 (back in early 90s, so pre-recentering). I actually did about 1380, I had a so-so actual one. It probably is the best bang for the buck, if you're already 1-2 standard deviations on general intelligence. Because the test is a game like admissions is a game, so if you're smart enough to see the game, it's easier and most effective to practice with that. For the "normals", I have no idea if it will work. But we're specifically discussing MIT, who do NOT want normals, I'm not good enough. They want 2-3 standard deviations people. MIT should be able to weight for socioeconomic and location/environment given the amount of information required for financial aid and "the internet". If this becomes ubiquitous, I can see suburbanites getting ghetto apartments for the address to game the weights :-)

david38 5y ago

My mother was an orphan at 15 in Honduras. When she had me, she shared a 400 square foot house with six of her sisters. Look up the crime stats for Honduras and try again. Also, looking at the very worst situations is not a valid argument. By that rational, what about the poor girl who is kept a sex slave in her basement by her father for twenty years? Do you think sending your African American example to SAT prep will make a difference? Coming from the poorest and sketchiest towns in America? Such a child would likely be better served by starting at a community college. After that, SATs are not accepted.