4 ms·

>"Then you've just thrown "I sense" in front of it all to make it okay that you're basing that on zero evidence." Yes, that's being used as a contextual qualif

>"Then you've just thrown "I sense" in front of it all to make it okay that you're basing that on zero evidence." Yes, that's being used as a contextual qualifier. "I sense" = this is my personal opinion, not an assertion of objective fact. >"If you think they've got an "incredibly" high false positive rate you should go do the work to have some kind of factual evidence to base that on." Why? Do you have some evidence this is a bad thing? If you think my use of "I sense" is harmful, you should go do the work and provide some factual evidence to back up your position. I see no citations.

zasdffaa 5y ago
> I see no citations. well, if you believe science has any value then we might agree on this <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method>
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  I was calling out someone criticizing me for not providing citations whilst they also failed to provide citations. So that seems fair game to me. Truth be told, though, I feel like your statement is insinuating that I somehow don't value science. Or, that I've never heard of the scientific method? My main point of frustration is how people are expecting a level of rigor that isn't congruent with the medium. This is a forum, not an academic journal or a policy-making body. I don't know if "reverse gish gallop" has been coined yet, but I sense that when one finds someone they disagree with they can adopt the mindset that everything that person has said must be backed up with a citation. Virtually no one is equipped to perform a dissertation defense on a forum post, so demanding an ever increasing list of evidence is an effective means of discrediting the content without actually engaging with it.
  - lamontcg 5y ago
    "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague, you shouldn't be defending it. Just do some work to have a basis for your opinions. It is intellectually lazy not to do so, and you've got the Internet, Google and Wikipedia to help you get started, you don't even need to leave your couch and physically go down to a Library.
    - BitwiseFool 5y ago
      >"People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague, you shouldn't be defending it." What's your basis for this? Show me your work.
      - zasdffaa 5y ago
        You can't admit other people have a valid objection so you just twist words and misrepresent others to avoid admitting your initial post was content-free and of no value. Please just stop.
        BitwiseFool 5y ago
        >"You can't admit other people have a valid objection" How can it be a valid objection if you've provided zero evidence to back it up? You are the one who decries a lack of supporting evidence, yet you've provided none in any of your replies so far. Particularly: "holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague" because it looks a lot like a personal opinion of yours with zero presented evidence to back it up.
        zasdffaa 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
        BitwiseFool 5y ago
        I don't like the duplicity of demanding citations and grandstanding about how bad it is not to provide any, while simultaneously making claims with "zero evidence". If they'll call me out on it, I'll hold them to their own standard right back. This is despite the fact that I don't believe everything needs a citation. In any event, this is getting more and more contentious and we should probably all just leave things be.
        lamontcg 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law It wouldn't need a name if it wasn't common. And here's a book on it for you: https://www.callingbullshit.org/ https://www.callingbullshit.org/

zasdffaa 5y ago

> I see no citations. well, if you believe science has any value then we might agree on this <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method>

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I was calling out someone criticizing me for not providing citations whilst they also failed to provide citations. So that seems fair game to me. Truth be told, though, I feel like your statement is insinuating that I somehow don't value science. Or, that I've never heard of the scientific method? My main point of frustration is how people are expecting a level of rigor that isn't congruent with the medium. This is a forum, not an academic journal or a policy-making body. I don't know if "reverse gish gallop" has been coined yet, but I sense that when one finds someone they disagree with they can adopt the mindset that everything that person has said must be backed up with a citation. Virtually no one is equipped to perform a dissertation defense on a forum post, so demanding an ever increasing list of evidence is an effective means of discrediting the content without actually engaging with it.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague, you shouldn't be defending it. Just do some work to have a basis for your opinions. It is intellectually lazy not to do so, and you've got the Internet, Google and Wikipedia to help you get started, you don't even need to leave your couch and physically go down to a Library.
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    >"People holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague, you shouldn't be defending it." What's your basis for this? Show me your work.
    - zasdffaa 5y ago
      You can't admit other people have a valid objection so you just twist words and misrepresent others to avoid admitting your initial post was content-free and of no value. Please just stop.
      - BitwiseFool 5y ago
        >"You can't admit other people have a valid objection" How can it be a valid objection if you've provided zero evidence to back it up? You are the one who decries a lack of supporting evidence, yet you've provided none in any of your replies so far. Particularly: "holding opinions without any evidence is a modern plague" because it looks a lot like a personal opinion of yours with zero presented evidence to back it up.
        zasdffaa 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
        BitwiseFool 5y ago
        I don't like the duplicity of demanding citations and grandstanding about how bad it is not to provide any, while simultaneously making claims with "zero evidence". If they'll call me out on it, I'll hold them to their own standard right back. This is despite the fact that I don't believe everything needs a citation. In any event, this is getting more and more contentious and we should probably all just leave things be.
        lamontcg 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law It wouldn't need a name if it wasn't common. And here's a book on it for you: https://www.callingbullshit.org/ https://www.callingbullshit.org/