6 ms·

Billions of male chickls are ground up by the egg industry every year because they aren't productive at all. Also, egg laying chickens are only economically via

Billions of male chickls are ground up by the egg industry every year because they aren't productive at all. Also, egg laying chickens are only economically viable for a few years at most, even though they live for many more, so egg laying chickens are indeed killed because they become a liability. > why do ethical vegan proponents feel it is better for an animal to never live at all? The same reason that I feel it'd have been better for someone who abused and murdered their child to have never had any children. Bringing something into this world does not permit us to treat it however we want. We all know that, some people just think it for some reasons doesn't apply to chickens, cows, pigs, etc.

2000UltraDeluxe 5y ago
Yeah, pretty much this. Industry farming treats animals horribly and the quality is usually crap. Backyard chickens is another thing, and anyone who wants fresh eggs should go that route. The same applies to chickens raised for meat.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  I don’t eat meat myself but I would be ok if animals got treated well during their lifetime and just had one bad day when they get slaughtered. Wild animals also usually don’t have good endings. What I object to is the cruelty these animals are subjected to for their whole life. Their whole life is a sequence of very bad days without reprieve.
  - sweetheart 5y ago
    Ignoring the fact that the “one bad day” method is still messed up (would we be cool if i shot my dog in the head as soon as I was inconvenienced?), there is no way to ensure these animals treated well before their slaughter and maintain any level of scale. If you want to pay $60 for a dozen eggs, sure, maybe there is a way to ensure your “one bad day” eggs are in super markets. Otherwise the only way it works is if the welfare of animals is ignored. To know that you aren’t supporting such violence, it’s easy: just don’t eat animal products.
    - 2000UltraDeluxe 5y ago
      Or, just raise your own animals. As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly ethical to kill your own food or harvest eggs laid by your own chickens. No need to pay money for other naturally produced foodstuffs; fresh eggs and high-quality meat are excellent mediums of trade. As you mention, the problem is scale, but then everyone doesn't have to live in a city. Different solutions for different situations and all that.
      - sweetheart 5y ago
        I think people would still take issue with me buying a puppy, raising it for a year, and then shooting it in the head to eat it. If that's true, then I think people are actually far less cool with the "one bad day" argument than they think. Even if you treat an animal like royalty for years and decide one day to kill it for food or clothing or whatever, you are still doing something wrong. Our treatment of anything does not grant us the privilege to end its life. We feel this way about dogs and cats, and other humans, but never pigs or cows or sheep or goats or fish, etc. And there is no reasonable explanation for why, other than speciesism.
kingcharles 5y ago
Right. They literally just squeeze the baby chicks to see their gender, then just throw all the males into a "humane" meat grinder. Until we can persuade a cock to lay eggs we are going to have to kill 50% of the chicken population to get our eggs.

2000UltraDeluxe 5y ago

Yeah, pretty much this. Industry farming treats animals horribly and the quality is usually crap. Backyard chickens is another thing, and anyone who wants fresh eggs should go that route. The same applies to chickens raised for meat.

spaetzleesser 5y ago
I don’t eat meat myself but I would be ok if animals got treated well during their lifetime and just had one bad day when they get slaughtered. Wild animals also usually don’t have good endings. What I object to is the cruelty these animals are subjected to for their whole life. Their whole life is a sequence of very bad days without reprieve.
- sweetheart 5y ago
  Ignoring the fact that the “one bad day” method is still messed up (would we be cool if i shot my dog in the head as soon as I was inconvenienced?), there is no way to ensure these animals treated well before their slaughter and maintain any level of scale. If you want to pay $60 for a dozen eggs, sure, maybe there is a way to ensure your “one bad day” eggs are in super markets. Otherwise the only way it works is if the welfare of animals is ignored. To know that you aren’t supporting such violence, it’s easy: just don’t eat animal products.
  - 2000UltraDeluxe 5y ago
    Or, just raise your own animals. As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly ethical to kill your own food or harvest eggs laid by your own chickens. No need to pay money for other naturally produced foodstuffs; fresh eggs and high-quality meat are excellent mediums of trade. As you mention, the problem is scale, but then everyone doesn't have to live in a city. Different solutions for different situations and all that.
    - sweetheart 5y ago
      I think people would still take issue with me buying a puppy, raising it for a year, and then shooting it in the head to eat it. If that's true, then I think people are actually far less cool with the "one bad day" argument than they think. Even if you treat an animal like royalty for years and decide one day to kill it for food or clothing or whatever, you are still doing something wrong. Our treatment of anything does not grant us the privilege to end its life. We feel this way about dogs and cats, and other humans, but never pigs or cows or sheep or goats or fish, etc. And there is no reasonable explanation for why, other than speciesism.

kingcharles 5y ago

Right. They literally just squeeze the baby chicks to see their gender, then just throw all the males into a "humane" meat grinder. Until we can persuade a cock to lay eggs we are going to have to kill 50% of the chicken population to get our eggs.