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The amount of bad faith interpretation and just missing the point in response to this solid bit of career advice is just astounding.

vkou 5y ago
There'd probably be a lot less bad faith interpretation if it didn't end with a double-zinger of 'And once you reduce your life to a neo-liberal economic model, is when you will finally grow up and become an adult'. That last part in particular poisons the rest. Sure, it could be interpreted in good faith, but as it's so damn condescending - why put the work in?
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  I don't get these knee-jerk reactions, clearly a lot of people here are putting their wishful statements into his mouth/keyboard - where I see none. Take ownership of your life, nobody else will. Set priorities straight, nobody else will. Beware of far-reaching mistakes, you can screw up your life irreparably, nobody is going to magically save you like in Hollywood stories. What the heck? These are some solid life advises. They are crystal clear to any adults, yet so many people fail with those, often badly, and their lives are ruins. Were you told these things at least once when growing up in a manner that actually sticked with you? I didn't and for sure I wish I did (I ended up all right but I believe I had more luck than average and sometimes risked way too much)
- lliamander 5y ago
  > 'And once you reduce your life to a neo-liberal economic model, is when you will finally grow up and become an adult' Case in point. You use quotes, and some of the words are the same, but what the author actually said and what you think the author said are just different things. It's not even about giving the benefit of the doubt for something that was poorly worded. I just don't think you understand what was actually written.
- caffeine 5y ago
  > And once you reduce your life to a neo-liberal economic model, is when you will finally grow up and become an adult I apologise. It’s not what I meant, in two different ways: 1. You’re not JUST a company. 2. The adult realisation isn’t that you’re a company - it’s that you’re responsible, and your decisions have Real Consequences. I wish I could write more clearly. I made an edit to try to address this. Thanks.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    > 2. The adult realisation isn’t that you’re a company - it’s that you’re responsible, and your decisions have Real Consequences. More specifically, would it be fair to say that you shouldn't depend upon or expect other people (such as your employer) to manage your career for you?
52-6F-62 5y ago
I'm equally wary of the hubris in declaring one has defined all of the required variables for living well. A review of ages of history would tell that nobody ever nails it down that fully. Everything has its price, including a bank account that never goes red.
- lliamander 5y ago
  That has nothing to do with what caffeine actually said.
  - 52-6F-62 5y ago
    What I said had to do with what you said. OP set out a prescription (quite literally defined adulthood for everyone), it was questioned and you criticized the questioners. I'm questioning the criticizing of the questioners. Why assume bad faith in the other comments? Try a different perspective while reading OP's comment. That is to say, the industrial-entrepreneurial worldview is a valid one. But there are many other valid ones besides.
    - lliamander 5y ago
      > What I said had to do with what you said. OP set out a prescription (quite literally defined adulthood for everyone), it was questioned and you criticized the questioners. I'm questioning the criticizing of the questioners. I'm correctly critiquing yourself and others for not actually understanding what caffeine said. It seems that you still don't. > Why assume bad faith in the other comments? Try a different perspective while reading OP's comment. I'm inferring bad faith on the basis that people seem to use caffeine's comment as a spring-board to engage in anti-capitalist rants, rather than actually engage with the quite reasonable career advice it was. > That is to say, the industrial-entrepreneurial worldview is a valid one. But there are many other valid ones besides. No one said it was the only one. Only that it is an important perspective to have on managing one's career.
      - 52-6F-62 5y ago
bavell 5y ago
It's pretty incredible that such a benign statement caused so much ruckus! The misunderstanding is palpable.

vkou 5y ago

There'd probably be a lot less bad faith interpretation if it didn't end with a double-zinger of 'And once you reduce your life to a neo-liberal economic model, is when you will finally grow up and become an adult'. That last part in particular poisons the rest. Sure, it could be interpreted in good faith, but as it's so damn condescending - why put the work in?

saiya-jin 5y ago
I don't get these knee-jerk reactions, clearly a lot of people here are putting their wishful statements into his mouth/keyboard - where I see none. Take ownership of your life, nobody else will. Set priorities straight, nobody else will. Beware of far-reaching mistakes, you can screw up your life irreparably, nobody is going to magically save you like in Hollywood stories. What the heck? These are some solid life advises. They are crystal clear to any adults, yet so many people fail with those, often badly, and their lives are ruins. Were you told these things at least once when growing up in a manner that actually sticked with you? I didn't and for sure I wish I did (I ended up all right but I believe I had more luck than average and sometimes risked way too much)
lliamander 5y ago
> 'And once you reduce your life to a neo-liberal economic model, is when you will finally grow up and become an adult' Case in point. You use quotes, and some of the words are the same, but what the author actually said and what you think the author said are just different things. It's not even about giving the benefit of the doubt for something that was poorly worded. I just don't think you understand what was actually written.
caffeine 5y ago
> And once you reduce your life to a neo-liberal economic model, is when you will finally grow up and become an adult I apologise. It’s not what I meant, in two different ways: 1. You’re not JUST a company. 2. The adult realisation isn’t that you’re a company - it’s that you’re responsible, and your decisions have Real Consequences. I wish I could write more clearly. I made an edit to try to address this. Thanks.
- lliamander 5y ago
  > 2. The adult realisation isn’t that you’re a company - it’s that you’re responsible, and your decisions have Real Consequences. More specifically, would it be fair to say that you shouldn't depend upon or expect other people (such as your employer) to manage your career for you?

52-6F-62 5y ago

I'm equally wary of the hubris in declaring one has defined all of the required variables for living well. A review of ages of history would tell that nobody ever nails it down that fully. Everything has its price, including a bank account that never goes red.

lliamander 5y ago
That has nothing to do with what caffeine actually said.
- 52-6F-62 5y ago
  What I said had to do with what you said. OP set out a prescription (quite literally defined adulthood for everyone), it was questioned and you criticized the questioners. I'm questioning the criticizing of the questioners. Why assume bad faith in the other comments? Try a different perspective while reading OP's comment. That is to say, the industrial-entrepreneurial worldview is a valid one. But there are many other valid ones besides.
  - lliamander 5y ago
    > What I said had to do with what you said. OP set out a prescription (quite literally defined adulthood for everyone), it was questioned and you criticized the questioners. I'm questioning the criticizing of the questioners. I'm correctly critiquing yourself and others for not actually understanding what caffeine said. It seems that you still don't. > Why assume bad faith in the other comments? Try a different perspective while reading OP's comment. I'm inferring bad faith on the basis that people seem to use caffeine's comment as a spring-board to engage in anti-capitalist rants, rather than actually engage with the quite reasonable career advice it was. > That is to say, the industrial-entrepreneurial worldview is a valid one. But there are many other valid ones besides. No one said it was the only one. Only that it is an important perspective to have on managing one's career.
    - 52-6F-62 5y ago

bavell 5y ago

It's pretty incredible that such a benign statement caused so much ruckus! The misunderstanding is palpable.