5 ms·

At that point you’re just trying to cheat God, and what’s the point of that if you’re so religiously devote that you follow such laws anyway?

0des 5y ago
Some elevators have sabbath mode.
- azinman2 5y ago
  People also setup timers for lights in their homes. I’ve never understood this. I’m know famous rabbis have found ways to justify this so the orthodox do this, but to me it just feels like you’re cheating the system. Or we just need to redefine what work is. But leavened bread? It doesn’t seem as abstract to define as “work.”
  - 0des 5y ago
    As I shared in my previous comment, initially I misunderstood the purpose of that tradition as well, but as it turns out, it is less about doing work or consuming a live organism but more about preserving the heritage of the biblical struggles of erstwhile judaic tribes being forced into travel without notice (fleeing Egypt iirc), and the scarcity of more palatable sustenance.
    - azinman2 5y ago
      Yes. Not eating leavened bread is something you do for Passover. Sabbath is weekly and is about “not doing work”. I thought the sabbath mode for elevator comment was just more broadly talking about “cheating God”
      - 0des 5y ago
        It's ok, I think I misunderstood your comment a little bit, but it looks like we are both on the same page here now that I go back and read. Have a good rest of your day :)
  - ars 5y ago
    "work" is a bad translation. It should be translated as "creative activity". Creating light in this case.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Fun fact: Manhattan has a fishing line circling it for similar purposes. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-enci...
  - 0des 5y ago
    I did not know about that one! As a fisherman, I wonder what happens when someone notices part of the string has broken. Surely they replace it, but does everything stop until sundown when someone can fix it, or do you call a goy?
    - ars 5y ago
      They check the entire string every Friday and repair it if necessary. And it needs repair almost every week.
  - emmelaich 5y ago
    The suburb of St Ives in Sydney was allowed to do a similar thing there, after a long battle with the council and electricity companies. St. Ives has many Jews, many from South Africa IIRC. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/nsw-council-approves-jewish-eruv-amid-claims-of-a-religious-enclave/bbaxgs14h https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/nsw-council-approves-jew...
zukzuk 5y ago
But that's like half the fun of being orthodox!
koolba 5y ago
For many, the letter of the law, not the intent, is what counts. That’s how you end up with things like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
(Note: speaking as a casual observer of a culture I'm not a part of.) Rules lawyering appears to be an ingrained part of Jewish culture. You're (essentially) not allowed to leave your house during the Sabbath, so Orthodox communities lay string around entire towns, so their "house" can be considered the entirety of the town. --- As the story goes, my father—an atheist with jewish heritage—was once on a Ski trip with his friend Steve, an orthodox Jew. During the Sabbath, Steve couldn't go skiing, so he had to stay behind in the pair's little hut. The hut had a TV, but Sabbath rules forbade Steve from turning on the TV, and Steve couldn't ask someone with jewish heritage to break Sabbath. So instead, Steve says: "Y'know, there's a really good game on TV today!" Unfortunately, my father didn't get the hint. "That's great Steve! See ya tonight!"
- a_c_s 5y ago
  You're allowed to leave the house on Shabbat! The eruv (string around the neighborhood) is to get around the prohibition on carrying things between a "public" domain and a "private" domain. This prohibition is very broad - having your house keys in your pants pocket as you leave your house counts as "carrying" as does pushing a stroller. The eruv allows the whole neighborhood to be considered a "private" area and sidesteps this prohibition. However there are definitely Jewish communities that don't have an eruv or wouldn't make use of it if there is one in the neighborhood.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > You're allowed to leave the house on Shabbat! > This prohibition is very broad - having your house keys in your pants pocket as you leave your house counts as "carrying" If you can't bring your keys, you effectively can't leave, no? Or am I getting something very wrong here?
- tantalor 5y ago
  > A shabbos goy is a non-Jew who performs certain activities which Jewish religious law (halakha) prohibits a Jew from doing on the Sabbath. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy
flotzam 5y ago
There's the idea that God (being omniscient and omnipotent) knew about any loopholes and had/has the power to close them...
- gibolt 5y ago
  Imagine hearing from God that we were too clever, and a specific loophole will be closed on Jan 1st next year
  - flotzam 5y ago
    (angels singing) An Important Update To Our Terms And Conditions
  - mbg721 5y ago
    Well, Rosh Hashanah rather than Jan 1, but point taken.
axus 5y ago
It's more interesting that way. These guys seem like another community of hackers: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/
GLGirty 5y ago
Cheating God is one of my favorite things about science.
- jrapdx3 5y ago
  Now I'm curious, just how is science actually "cheating God"? Of course there's a huge body of literature on the subject of God and science, including contributions by some of the most important theoretical physicists.
ars 5y ago
"Leaven bread" has a specific definition, and yeast is not included in that definition in any way. It's about time and flour. Because yeast is often used people sometimes think that yeast is what's forbidden on Passover, but that's not correct.

0des 5y ago

Some elevators have sabbath mode.

azinman2 5y ago
People also setup timers for lights in their homes. I’ve never understood this. I’m know famous rabbis have found ways to justify this so the orthodox do this, but to me it just feels like you’re cheating the system. Or we just need to redefine what work is. But leavened bread? It doesn’t seem as abstract to define as “work.”
- 0des 5y ago
  As I shared in my previous comment, initially I misunderstood the purpose of that tradition as well, but as it turns out, it is less about doing work or consuming a live organism but more about preserving the heritage of the biblical struggles of erstwhile judaic tribes being forced into travel without notice (fleeing Egypt iirc), and the scarcity of more palatable sustenance.
  - azinman2 5y ago
    Yes. Not eating leavened bread is something you do for Passover. Sabbath is weekly and is about “not doing work”. I thought the sabbath mode for elevator comment was just more broadly talking about “cheating God”
    - 0des 5y ago
      It's ok, I think I misunderstood your comment a little bit, but it looks like we are both on the same page here now that I go back and read. Have a good rest of your day :)
- ars 5y ago
  "work" is a bad translation. It should be translated as "creative activity". Creating light in this case.
ceejayoz 5y ago
Fun fact: Manhattan has a fishing line circling it for similar purposes. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-encircles-manhattan-protecting-sanctity-of-sabbath https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/721551785/a-fishing-line-enci...
- 0des 5y ago
  I did not know about that one! As a fisherman, I wonder what happens when someone notices part of the string has broken. Surely they replace it, but does everything stop until sundown when someone can fix it, or do you call a goy?
  - ars 5y ago
    They check the entire string every Friday and repair it if necessary. And it needs repair almost every week.
- emmelaich 5y ago
  The suburb of St Ives in Sydney was allowed to do a similar thing there, after a long battle with the council and electricity companies. St. Ives has many Jews, many from South Africa IIRC. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/nsw-council-approves-jewish-eruv-amid-claims-of-a-religious-enclave/bbaxgs14h https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/nsw-council-approves-jew...

zukzuk 5y ago

But that's like half the fun of being orthodox!

koolba 5y ago

For many, the letter of the law, not the intent, is what counts. That’s how you end up with things like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

(Note: speaking as a casual observer of a culture I'm not a part of.) Rules lawyering appears to be an ingrained part of Jewish culture. You're (essentially) not allowed to leave your house during the Sabbath, so Orthodox communities lay string around entire towns, so their "house" can be considered the entirety of the town. --- As the story goes, my father—an atheist with jewish heritage—was once on a Ski trip with his friend Steve, an orthodox Jew. During the Sabbath, Steve couldn't go skiing, so he had to stay behind in the pair's little hut. The hut had a TV, but Sabbath rules forbade Steve from turning on the TV, and Steve couldn't ask someone with jewish heritage to break Sabbath. So instead, Steve says: "Y'know, there's a really good game on TV today!" Unfortunately, my father didn't get the hint. "That's great Steve! See ya tonight!"

a_c_s 5y ago
You're allowed to leave the house on Shabbat! The eruv (string around the neighborhood) is to get around the prohibition on carrying things between a "public" domain and a "private" domain. This prohibition is very broad - having your house keys in your pants pocket as you leave your house counts as "carrying" as does pushing a stroller. The eruv allows the whole neighborhood to be considered a "private" area and sidesteps this prohibition. However there are definitely Jewish communities that don't have an eruv or wouldn't make use of it if there is one in the neighborhood.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > You're allowed to leave the house on Shabbat! > This prohibition is very broad - having your house keys in your pants pocket as you leave your house counts as "carrying" If you can't bring your keys, you effectively can't leave, no? Or am I getting something very wrong here?
tantalor 5y ago
> A shabbos goy is a non-Jew who performs certain activities which Jewish religious law (halakha) prohibits a Jew from doing on the Sabbath. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

flotzam 5y ago

There's the idea that God (being omniscient and omnipotent) knew about any loopholes and had/has the power to close them...

gibolt 5y ago
Imagine hearing from God that we were too clever, and a specific loophole will be closed on Jan 1st next year
- flotzam 5y ago
  (angels singing) An Important Update To Our Terms And Conditions
- mbg721 5y ago
  Well, Rosh Hashanah rather than Jan 1, but point taken.

axus 5y ago

It's more interesting that way. These guys seem like another community of hackers: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/ https://judaism.stackexchange.com/

GLGirty 5y ago

Cheating God is one of my favorite things about science.

jrapdx3 5y ago
Now I'm curious, just how is science actually "cheating God"? Of course there's a huge body of literature on the subject of God and science, including contributions by some of the most important theoretical physicists.

ars 5y ago

"Leaven bread" has a specific definition, and yeast is not included in that definition in any way. It's about time and flour. Because yeast is often used people sometimes think that yeast is what's forbidden on Passover, but that's not correct.