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Where are you from? I'm asking because it sounds from your post like you're opposed to those countries taking such measures. I've seen people be outraged at th

Where are you from? I'm asking because it sounds from your post like you're opposed to those countries taking such measures. I've seen people be outraged at this sort of stuff and without fail, it's always been someone who's nice and safe and not in danger of being invaded by Russia. My take on it is that unless you're from one of those countries, or have some other form of close experience or relationship with those countries, you don't really get to judge this. Supporting the war is tantamount to treason over there, because it is. Those countries are in danger of being the next target. When is it okay to make it treason to support or accept a foreign invasion like this? When it happens more than two borders over? One border? Only when it's your own? Or maybe it's never okay, live and let live, the putin wants what the putin wants?

glogla 5y ago
I don't know about other places, but at least in Czech Republic, approving Russian invasion it is not treason but it falls under generic law of "publicly endorsing crimes and atrocities" or whatever is it called. You could get prosecuted for approving terrorist acts, genocides, whatever else. Most of the time it ends in probation and fine, I think one famous case was with some asswipe celebrating the New Zealand mass shooting. There is also law against "promoting movements that aim to attack human rights and freedom" which is the law that lands you in prison if you promote Nazi ideology, wear Nazi symbols and similar. The Russian Z would fit there as well.
rightbyte 5y ago
How is it treason to support (as in cheer for not support military) a country in a war your country is not fighting? Would it be treason to support Iraq too? The government decides what side to be legal to support? These laws are very much an unfortunate slippery slope.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  > How is it treason to support (as in cheer for not support military) a country in a war your country is not fighting? Because geography? Do you still not get that if Ukraine falls, those countries are next? Do you still not get that while Ukraine fights for its existence, its western neighbours are hoping all to god this gets resolved before it reaches them? Do you still not get that Europe is sending billions of euros of military aid to Ukraine, so that the fight stays contained within Ukraine? And do you still not get that the further this spreads, the higher the risk of nuclear war? This isn't a game anymore. This isn't Keyboard Warrior Happy Time, where we all get together and meta-talk about a variety of fallacies on the news du jour that might happen years down the line. People are fucking dying by the thousands, and if we don't stop it, it'll be by the millions. The pandemic was nothing compared to what we're potentially facing if we fuck up.
  - rightbyte 5y ago
    Maybe the gas line should be closed off before German citizen are prosecuted by its elite for supporting Russia? I mean transferring huge amount of money helps the war effort more than Z-stickers. I guess the gov. decides what support is OK. It is hilarious that some parts of Germany outlaws "Z" while at the same time giving weapons that will end up in the Azov regiment, which soldiers would be thrown in jail in Germany for wearing their nazi insignia. Like, Germany is for real arming neonazis in a foreign war. But I guess I am the mad person for believing "the West" should not touch this war with a 10ft pole.
    - ls15 5y ago
      Is by your definition everyone who is resisting the Russian invasion a neonazi?
      - rightbyte 5y ago
        No. How would you possibly read me like that.
        ls15 5y ago
        > while at the same time giving weapons that will end up in the Azov regiment Azov has about 1,000 members, while the Ukrainian active personel is 245,000. Why would the non-nazi majority hand the power to the 0.4% minority?
        ailef 5y ago
        It's not just Azov, there are plenty of other neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine. One of them, for example, is Right Sector. If you're claiming that these groups do not have an outsized influence on Ukraininan politics/institutions, explain to me how what happened in 2014 is possible. After months of protests, the government reached an agreement with the 3 most important political parties from the opposition (which were representing something like 40% of the votes). Apparently this agreement didn't sit right for Right Sector activists, which by the way were not even in the parliament, and they straight up threatened an armed coup. > Activist Volodymyr Parasiuk warned from the stage that if Yanukovych did not resign by 10:00 the next day, an armed coup would be staged. Do you think that an extra-parliamentary group with explicit neo-Nazi ideologies would be allowed to override the parliament's will, by threatening to kill the president, in any other country? By the way, this is not to say that all of Ukrainian are Nazis. But 20% of the population can obtain 80% of the impact, especially when they are very well armed and moved by a dangerous ideology. EDIT: Funnily enough, Right Sector leader Yarosh also recently threatened to "hang Zelensky by a tree" if he "betrays Ukraine". Can you be absolutely sure that these people and these threats are not having an influence on peace negotiation talks?

glogla 5y ago

I don't know about other places, but at least in Czech Republic, approving Russian invasion it is not treason but it falls under generic law of "publicly endorsing crimes and atrocities" or whatever is it called. You could get prosecuted for approving terrorist acts, genocides, whatever else. Most of the time it ends in probation and fine, I think one famous case was with some asswipe celebrating the New Zealand mass shooting. There is also law against "promoting movements that aim to attack human rights and freedom" which is the law that lands you in prison if you promote Nazi ideology, wear Nazi symbols and similar. The Russian Z would fit there as well.

rightbyte 5y ago

How is it treason to support (as in cheer for not support military) a country in a war your country is not fighting? Would it be treason to support Iraq too? The government decides what side to be legal to support? These laws are very much an unfortunate slippery slope.

scrollaway 5y ago
> How is it treason to support (as in cheer for not support military) a country in a war your country is not fighting? Because geography? Do you still not get that if Ukraine falls, those countries are next? Do you still not get that while Ukraine fights for its existence, its western neighbours are hoping all to god this gets resolved before it reaches them? Do you still not get that Europe is sending billions of euros of military aid to Ukraine, so that the fight stays contained within Ukraine? And do you still not get that the further this spreads, the higher the risk of nuclear war? This isn't a game anymore. This isn't Keyboard Warrior Happy Time, where we all get together and meta-talk about a variety of fallacies on the news du jour that might happen years down the line. People are fucking dying by the thousands, and if we don't stop it, it'll be by the millions. The pandemic was nothing compared to what we're potentially facing if we fuck up.
- rightbyte 5y ago
  Maybe the gas line should be closed off before German citizen are prosecuted by its elite for supporting Russia? I mean transferring huge amount of money helps the war effort more than Z-stickers. I guess the gov. decides what support is OK. It is hilarious that some parts of Germany outlaws "Z" while at the same time giving weapons that will end up in the Azov regiment, which soldiers would be thrown in jail in Germany for wearing their nazi insignia. Like, Germany is for real arming neonazis in a foreign war. But I guess I am the mad person for believing "the West" should not touch this war with a 10ft pole.
  - ls15 5y ago
    Is by your definition everyone who is resisting the Russian invasion a neonazi?
    - rightbyte 5y ago
      No. How would you possibly read me like that.
      - ls15 5y ago
        > while at the same time giving weapons that will end up in the Azov regiment Azov has about 1,000 members, while the Ukrainian active personel is 245,000. Why would the non-nazi majority hand the power to the 0.4% minority?
        ailef 5y ago
        It's not just Azov, there are plenty of other neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine. One of them, for example, is Right Sector. If you're claiming that these groups do not have an outsized influence on Ukraininan politics/institutions, explain to me how what happened in 2014 is possible. After months of protests, the government reached an agreement with the 3 most important political parties from the opposition (which were representing something like 40% of the votes). Apparently this agreement didn't sit right for Right Sector activists, which by the way were not even in the parliament, and they straight up threatened an armed coup. > Activist Volodymyr Parasiuk warned from the stage that if Yanukovych did not resign by 10:00 the next day, an armed coup would be staged. Do you think that an extra-parliamentary group with explicit neo-Nazi ideologies would be allowed to override the parliament's will, by threatening to kill the president, in any other country? By the way, this is not to say that all of Ukrainian are Nazis. But 20% of the population can obtain 80% of the impact, especially when they are very well armed and moved by a dangerous ideology. EDIT: Funnily enough, Right Sector leader Yarosh also recently threatened to "hang Zelensky by a tree" if he "betrays Ukraine". Can you be absolutely sure that these people and these threats are not having an influence on peace negotiation talks?