4 ms·

it's also super hard to build a great f2p and i think CSGO easily is the best. they bootstrapped it for almost 2 decades from a mod made by Minh Le to what it i

it's also super hard to build a great f2p and i think CSGO easily is the best. they bootstrapped it for almost 2 decades from a mod made by Minh Le to what it is today and I must say it is the only f2p game I regularly play. simply because it actually pays to play. I've made about $20 bucks this month from just selling cases given out randomly at the end of each match. It cost me nothing to buy yet the in game items (cosmetic skins that don't influence gameplay) regularly sell for good money. it also make sense to buy the keys to unlock the cases sometimes simply because you might unlock a skin that fetches far more money. so it is a bit like gambling in that aspect. i'm just constantly amazed how they were able to pull the economics behind this. clearly the ppl who expect a 10~100x ROI on their keys must outnumber those selling the cases. I mean I can imagine a bunch of people just farming cases day and night. Perhaps even a sophisticated AI could pull it off since the in game drops aren't even correlated with your performance. even more impressive is how this is all legal since it really is gambling of sorts.

mnsc 5y ago
> ... i think CSGO easily is the best ... > ... so it is a bit like gambling ... I hate what video games have become.
- tomatowurst 5y ago
  I don't mind CSGO's flavor since it doesn't cost you money like poker but I can absolutely see somebody trying to buy multiple keys in hopes of unlocking a really good skin. again this doesn't impact the gameplay at all and I'm happy to earn some money. was able to buy another title on steam with the money accrued
  - bigDinosaur 5y ago
    I don't know if you're just naive or not, but you're paying with literally the most valuable currency you have. That doesn't mean it isn't fun to do so, although there's a very high chance you'll come to regret the number of hours pumped into such games and the way they kept you engaged in their dopamine loop.
- b112 5y ago
  I hate what video games have become. I think this is more than anything, an app store sickness. It has spread a little to consoles and desktop, but I can still buy a 100% offline, single player game, which has the main purpose of entertaining me. It has a story, a point to it, a mystery often, fun things to do which aren't mining or grinding away. I pay 80 bucks for the privilege, and am quite happy to do so. It is worth it, giving me many hours of entertainment. Some boast "oh I finished the game first run through in 8 hours" Really? Such players just ignore all the scenery, don't really explore, don't grasp the full mystery, just... fast fast! Gotta get this over with! I play and take in the scenery, and games like the Last of Us, Horizon Zero Dawn are fun, take 50 to 100 hours to play this way. Just reading things in-games, clues, discovering how these worlds got this way was 1/2 the fun of the game! So stop playing on your portable addiction device. Its hold is more devious too, as it is always in your pocket. Your PC, console, are with you on the bus. At work. In the kitchen. Return to us, good sir. Return to real gaming.
  - mnsc 5y ago
    I have kids now and the last game I prioritized to play this way was BoW during a summer vacation. I just hope these grand single player offline adventures wont go extinct until I will get some solid free time again. But on the other hand, I have such a long backlog of "old games" I want to play so I'm not really worried. It's more my kids that will get caught up in the Fortnites of the future and never experience the world building possible.
    - b112 5y ago
      If there's a market, it will happen. Even if only in a small amount.
legalcorrection 5y ago
As someone who once played a lot of counter strike, this comment is baffling. How about the part of the game where you try to shoot the people on the other team? Is that part fun or are you just in it for the casino mechanics?
- tomatowurst 5y ago
  I've been playing since 1.3, what part of it did you find baffling? you are not rewarded based on game performance, it is completely random to the point I don't even think about it and so I'm always focused on having fun. it just so happens that I seem to get good cases that I was able to sell for a bit of change but it is not like you can play 20 hours every week and make consistent money.
tpxl 5y ago
> so it is a bit like gambling in that aspect It's not a bit like gambling, it's exactly gambling and the predatory nature of it is what I hate about video games.
- tomatowurst 5y ago
  you can still enjoy the game without taking part in it as it is optional and does not change your odds of winning, that is still skill based. if somebody wants to pay for a fancy skin I don't really see an issue. people bet on soccer too but that shouldn't stop you from getting excitement from it.
878654Tom 5y ago
> even more impressive is how this is all legal since it really is gambling of sorts. In my home country (Belgium) and my neigboring country (Netherlands) a lot of games their lootboxes are not available for us for the reason that the game-creators do not advertise the dropchances like the lottery, casino's and other gambling games are forced to do. The reasoning is that the items that come out of the lootbox have a monetary value (as you need to pay to unlock a lootbox) so they fall under some of our gambling laws. In my eyes, good riddance and I hope more countries will follow. So Valve, EA Games,... just disabled opening lootboxes for us as they seem to be afraid to advertise the "drop chances" (but we can still buy and sell them)
rak 5y ago
It gets even better. With CSGO third parties were essentially selling games for actual currency instead of credit with Valve and using skins as currency for gambling on esports matches. A few of them also came up with other gambling games that didn't even involve esports. It was also a great vehicle for money laundering: https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/oct/30/counter-strike-trading-found-to-be-nearly-all-money-laundering https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/oct/30/counter-strike... Wild times.

mnsc 5y ago

> ... i think CSGO easily is the best ... > ... so it is a bit like gambling ... I hate what video games have become.

tomatowurst 5y ago
I don't mind CSGO's flavor since it doesn't cost you money like poker but I can absolutely see somebody trying to buy multiple keys in hopes of unlocking a really good skin. again this doesn't impact the gameplay at all and I'm happy to earn some money. was able to buy another title on steam with the money accrued
- bigDinosaur 5y ago
  I don't know if you're just naive or not, but you're paying with literally the most valuable currency you have. That doesn't mean it isn't fun to do so, although there's a very high chance you'll come to regret the number of hours pumped into such games and the way they kept you engaged in their dopamine loop.
b112 5y ago
I hate what video games have become. I think this is more than anything, an app store sickness. It has spread a little to consoles and desktop, but I can still buy a 100% offline, single player game, which has the main purpose of entertaining me. It has a story, a point to it, a mystery often, fun things to do which aren't mining or grinding away. I pay 80 bucks for the privilege, and am quite happy to do so. It is worth it, giving me many hours of entertainment. Some boast "oh I finished the game first run through in 8 hours" Really? Such players just ignore all the scenery, don't really explore, don't grasp the full mystery, just... fast fast! Gotta get this over with! I play and take in the scenery, and games like the Last of Us, Horizon Zero Dawn are fun, take 50 to 100 hours to play this way. Just reading things in-games, clues, discovering how these worlds got this way was 1/2 the fun of the game! So stop playing on your portable addiction device. Its hold is more devious too, as it is always in your pocket. Your PC, console, are with you on the bus. At work. In the kitchen. Return to us, good sir. Return to real gaming.
- mnsc 5y ago
  I have kids now and the last game I prioritized to play this way was BoW during a summer vacation. I just hope these grand single player offline adventures wont go extinct until I will get some solid free time again. But on the other hand, I have such a long backlog of "old games" I want to play so I'm not really worried. It's more my kids that will get caught up in the Fortnites of the future and never experience the world building possible.
  - b112 5y ago
    If there's a market, it will happen. Even if only in a small amount.

legalcorrection 5y ago

As someone who once played a lot of counter strike, this comment is baffling. How about the part of the game where you try to shoot the people on the other team? Is that part fun or are you just in it for the casino mechanics?

tomatowurst 5y ago
I've been playing since 1.3, what part of it did you find baffling? you are not rewarded based on game performance, it is completely random to the point I don't even think about it and so I'm always focused on having fun. it just so happens that I seem to get good cases that I was able to sell for a bit of change but it is not like you can play 20 hours every week and make consistent money.

tpxl 5y ago

> so it is a bit like gambling in that aspect It's not a bit like gambling, it's exactly gambling and the predatory nature of it is what I hate about video games.

tomatowurst 5y ago
you can still enjoy the game without taking part in it as it is optional and does not change your odds of winning, that is still skill based. if somebody wants to pay for a fancy skin I don't really see an issue. people bet on soccer too but that shouldn't stop you from getting excitement from it.

878654Tom 5y ago

> even more impressive is how this is all legal since it really is gambling of sorts. In my home country (Belgium) and my neigboring country (Netherlands) a lot of games their lootboxes are not available for us for the reason that the game-creators do not advertise the dropchances like the lottery, casino's and other gambling games are forced to do. The reasoning is that the items that come out of the lootbox have a monetary value (as you need to pay to unlock a lootbox) so they fall under some of our gambling laws. In my eyes, good riddance and I hope more countries will follow. So Valve, EA Games,... just disabled opening lootboxes for us as they seem to be afraid to advertise the "drop chances" (but we can still buy and sell them)

rak 5y ago

It gets even better. With CSGO third parties were essentially selling games for actual currency instead of credit with Valve and using skins as currency for gambling on esports matches. A few of them also came up with other gambling games that didn't even involve esports. It was also a great vehicle for money laundering: https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/oct/30/counter-strike-trading-found-to-be-nearly-all-money-laundering https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/oct/30/counter-strike... Wild times.