4 ms·

Your Kid Isn't Bad at Math. Here's how to help.

12 points by sebg 5y ago

rahimnathwani 5y ago
This is applicable to adults, too!
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Just less so because of how far you have to go back. The math you need as an adult(To actually use it in real world problems) is like, linear algebra and statistics and fairly advanced geometry, the math a lot of us still remember is prealgebra and before with major gaps in basic arithmetic. Of course most people in technical fields already don't have that issue, but someone picking it up as an adult has an overwhelming amount of catch up.
  - rahimnathwani 5y ago
    This is an interesting point. I think the options for an adult learner with an overwhelming amount of catching up to do are pretty much: 1. Do the catch up (ideal, if you have the time, energy and support). 2. Give up (don't waste your time, you won't get it). 3. Find a reliable source that can teach you to use the stuff within some limited domain, without needing to understand it fully. There are obvious problems with #3: - how do you find a reliable/trustworthy source? - how do you know when you're applying the rules/techniques when they don't apply An example of the last point is: someone teaches you enough about p values so you can calculate the significance of an individual experiment, but not enough that you can determine whether the same technique can be applied to your work as a whole: https://xkcd.com/882/ https://xkcd.com/882/
    - eternityforest 5y ago
      Well, for nontechnical people #3 is already the standard practice, since outside of STEM it's common to essentially never do any math, we pay our taxes with apps and many don't "budget" so much as "Spend almost nothing on anything that isn't essential", and even if we did budget, we'd use Excel. #3 also mostly works in programming, where common algorithms are black boxes, but it completely fails the moment you want to get a job that needs true understanding. Seems like we need an approach that actually gives people a sense of trust that the mostly useless times tables and trigonometry problems they learn will someday help them work at Google or read a scientific paper, so people have the motivation to avoid getting behind in the first place.
beardyw 5y ago
Can anyone help me understand why this is such a big topic in the USA? In the UK I have never come across this level of concern about maths. And it doesn't seem to be matched by worry about physics or other similar topics. I have seen this concern first hand, but never got to the bottom of where it comes from.
- sebg 5y ago
  [author here] Hi - it's a biggish topic here because of the popular depiction in social media / legacy media. For instance: - Twitter search for "kid bad at math": https://twitter.com/search?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math%20lang%3Aen&src=typed_query&f=live https://twitter.com/search?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math%20lang%3A... - Reddit search for "kid bad at math": https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math - TV Trope for "Everybody hates mathematics: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverybodyHatesMathematics https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverybodyHatesMa... - US State level curriculum guidelines: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535222.pdf https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535222.pdf As for it's not matched for other topics is because it's not a necessary topic for high school. Generally a US high school math student will see: - Algebra 1 - Geometry - Algebra 2 - Trigonometry - Pre-Calculus - Calculus (maybe, for a select few) So there's lots of places for someone to trip up. For general science leading into physics / biology / chemistry, etc - these are more upper level / final courses, so there aren't as many places where someone could trip up. // My (very hazy) understanding of the UK is that you have GCSEs and A Levels. So some people opt-out of some of the above classes way before they meet them whereas in the states, more people have to see them. (For instance, in NYC to __graduate__ a student would need 6 credits in math, including: At least 2 credits in advanced math (for example, Geometry or Algebra II).
  - beardyw 5y ago
    Thank you for such a complete answer. That makes it very clear.
    - sebg 5y ago
tapoxi 5y ago
They could be bad at math. I struggled with it through my entire educational career until I was referred to a local hospital for a neuropsych eval, and was diagnosed with dyscalculia, a disorder I didn't even know I existed and my browser thinks is a misspelling of "dyslexia". So give them all the assistance you can, as OP suggests, but don't get frustrated if they don't get it. It really hurt my self esteem until I got my diagnosis.
- sebg 5y ago
  [author here] Very true! Yes - it makes it very hard for a teacher / parent to help a kid if they're struggling with something. - Is it the material - Is it the way it's being taught - Is it the learning environment - Is it a specific disorder specific to this topic/concept/class - Is it a broader ailment that it hampering learning - Is it trauma in the home / school that's causing issues So much to figure out for each child and for each situation / subject! Sorry you had to struggle for so long until you got diagnosed. I had a friend you didn't get diagnosed with "dyslexia" until he was almost out of college. Hope you've figured it out!

12 points by sebg 5y ago

rahimnathwani 5y ago

This is applicable to adults, too!

eternityforest 5y ago
Just less so because of how far you have to go back. The math you need as an adult(To actually use it in real world problems) is like, linear algebra and statistics and fairly advanced geometry, the math a lot of us still remember is prealgebra and before with major gaps in basic arithmetic. Of course most people in technical fields already don't have that issue, but someone picking it up as an adult has an overwhelming amount of catch up.
- rahimnathwani 5y ago
  This is an interesting point. I think the options for an adult learner with an overwhelming amount of catching up to do are pretty much: 1. Do the catch up (ideal, if you have the time, energy and support). 2. Give up (don't waste your time, you won't get it). 3. Find a reliable source that can teach you to use the stuff within some limited domain, without needing to understand it fully. There are obvious problems with #3: - how do you find a reliable/trustworthy source? - how do you know when you're applying the rules/techniques when they don't apply An example of the last point is: someone teaches you enough about p values so you can calculate the significance of an individual experiment, but not enough that you can determine whether the same technique can be applied to your work as a whole: https://xkcd.com/882/ https://xkcd.com/882/
  - eternityforest 5y ago
    Well, for nontechnical people #3 is already the standard practice, since outside of STEM it's common to essentially never do any math, we pay our taxes with apps and many don't "budget" so much as "Spend almost nothing on anything that isn't essential", and even if we did budget, we'd use Excel. #3 also mostly works in programming, where common algorithms are black boxes, but it completely fails the moment you want to get a job that needs true understanding. Seems like we need an approach that actually gives people a sense of trust that the mostly useless times tables and trigonometry problems they learn will someday help them work at Google or read a scientific paper, so people have the motivation to avoid getting behind in the first place.

beardyw 5y ago

Can anyone help me understand why this is such a big topic in the USA? In the UK I have never come across this level of concern about maths. And it doesn't seem to be matched by worry about physics or other similar topics. I have seen this concern first hand, but never got to the bottom of where it comes from.

sebg 5y ago
[author here] Hi - it's a biggish topic here because of the popular depiction in social media / legacy media. For instance: - Twitter search for "kid bad at math": https://twitter.com/search?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math%20lang%3Aen&src=typed_query&f=live https://twitter.com/search?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math%20lang%3A... - Reddit search for "kid bad at math": https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=kid%20bad%20at%20math - TV Trope for "Everybody hates mathematics: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverybodyHatesMathematics https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EverybodyHatesMa... - US State level curriculum guidelines: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535222.pdf https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED535222.pdf As for it's not matched for other topics is because it's not a necessary topic for high school. Generally a US high school math student will see: - Algebra 1 - Geometry - Algebra 2 - Trigonometry - Pre-Calculus - Calculus (maybe, for a select few) So there's lots of places for someone to trip up. For general science leading into physics / biology / chemistry, etc - these are more upper level / final courses, so there aren't as many places where someone could trip up. // My (very hazy) understanding of the UK is that you have GCSEs and A Levels. So some people opt-out of some of the above classes way before they meet them whereas in the states, more people have to see them. (For instance, in NYC to __graduate__ a student would need 6 credits in math, including: At least 2 credits in advanced math (for example, Geometry or Algebra II).
- beardyw 5y ago
  Thank you for such a complete answer. That makes it very clear.
  - sebg 5y ago

tapoxi 5y ago

They could be bad at math. I struggled with it through my entire educational career until I was referred to a local hospital for a neuropsych eval, and was diagnosed with dyscalculia, a disorder I didn't even know I existed and my browser thinks is a misspelling of "dyslexia". So give them all the assistance you can, as OP suggests, but don't get frustrated if they don't get it. It really hurt my self esteem until I got my diagnosis.

sebg 5y ago
[author here] Very true! Yes - it makes it very hard for a teacher / parent to help a kid if they're struggling with something. - Is it the material - Is it the way it's being taught - Is it the learning environment - Is it a specific disorder specific to this topic/concept/class - Is it a broader ailment that it hampering learning - Is it trauma in the home / school that's causing issues So much to figure out for each child and for each situation / subject! Sorry you had to struggle for so long until you got diagnosed. I had a friend you didn't get diagnosed with "dyslexia" until he was almost out of college. Hope you've figured it out!