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The field of "Positive Discipline" [1] or "Positive Parenting" provides workable solutions. There may not be a quick fix. The idea is to reinforce good behavior

The field of "Positive Discipline" [1] or "Positive Parenting" provides workable solutions. There may not be a quick fix. The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. There are a ton of podcasts and books on this topic you can find using those keywords. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_discipline edit: please explain your downvotes, thanks! As interesting as discussing the problems is, there is no end to that.

hef19898 5y ago
Why I downvoted? Because, to me, the linked approach is the first (well, actually already a couple of miles) step towards tough love programs. It goes against everything good parenting is. Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that aren't causing any trouble. The goal of parenting, so, should be to offer a safe environment for kids to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is. And to prepare them for an independent life. None of that is easy, and yes discipline is necessary. As a tool, not as a means. If parents would just accept that their kids aren't going down the road the parents choose for them a lot of trouble and issues in parenting would already be solved. >> The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. That's how you educate dogs, and even with animals there a limits to what is acceptable (and rightly so).
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  > Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that are causing any trouble. "Positive Discipline" is nothing like the "tough love" described in this story. It's only "tough love" in the sense that you still give kids boundaries. There's nothing conformist about it. Rather, it encourages parents and kids to express themselves, allowing time for emotions to come out in a healthy way that encourages independence while reducing reliance on family members to step in and fix things that kids are capable of doing themselves. This all starts at a very young age, when you begin to sleep on your own, feed yourself, tie your shoes, etc. > That's how you educate dogs, and even with animals there a limits to what is acceptable (and rightly so). This is a discipline that's grown over the last 70+ years. Everyone responds to feedback. Learning, trial and error, evolution etc. apply to all species, albeit at different rates.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  "to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is" That sounds like a circular definition.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    I believe there is a true self in all of us. Whatever that is, and it might change. We have no way to tell what that is, so. Discovering this is what personal development is about. This development should be as unhindered as possible. One, rather obvious, example is trans-gender people. That's the "who / what you are" part. The become what you want part is ranging from career choices to the kind of person, besides identity, you want to become. This should be as unhindered as possible as well. Personally, whenever someone, something or a society tries to hinder any of this, I have adverse reactions. Of course there are limits to this, personal freedom ends at other peoples noses. It's hard to tell the good solutions, it's easy to tell the bad ones. And tough love camps are definitely bad ones.
    - treis 5y ago
      What do you suggest when the true self is something like "serial killer" or "violent abuser" or "drug addict"?
      - mxkopy 5y ago
        If you truly want a life that involves running from the police, constantly wondering if your death is around the corner, having no sense of community/family etc. then there are places in society where you can do that productively (e.g. a soldier, special operative, foreign agent). But most children don't know that they don't want that, and that's the fault of the parents.
    - trupv 5y ago
      Your example is surely "who / what you aren't" though? A man who isn't a woman (or vice versa), but wants to be, for whatever reason.
- dahfizz 5y ago
  > The goal of parenting, so, should be to offer a safe environment for kids to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is. Even if what they want is to become a drug addict felon? A mentally ill teenager does not know what is best for them. The parents job is to help their kids grow into happy, healthy members of society. The existence of rules does not preclude kids developing their own personality.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Straw man. Practically no one wants to become that. They end up becoming that because of their environment. Source: know a lot of drug addict felons. Grew up with a lot. None wanted to be that.

hef19898 5y ago

Why I downvoted? Because, to me, the linked approach is the first (well, actually already a couple of miles) step towards tough love programs. It goes against everything good parenting is. Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that aren't causing any trouble. The goal of parenting, so, should be to offer a safe environment for kids to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is. And to prepare them for an independent life. None of that is easy, and yes discipline is necessary. As a tool, not as a means. If parents would just accept that their kids aren't going down the road the parents choose for them a lot of trouble and issues in parenting would already be solved. >> The idea is to reinforce good behavior while weaning bad ones. That's how you educate dogs, and even with animals there a limits to what is acceptable (and rightly so).

unityByFreedom 5y ago
> Because at its core, much like tough love, the goal is to create "conforming" children that are causing any trouble. "Positive Discipline" is nothing like the "tough love" described in this story. It's only "tough love" in the sense that you still give kids boundaries. There's nothing conformist about it. Rather, it encourages parents and kids to express themselves, allowing time for emotions to come out in a healthy way that encourages independence while reducing reliance on family members to step in and fix things that kids are capable of doing themselves. This all starts at a very young age, when you begin to sleep on your own, feed yourself, tie your shoes, etc. > That's how you educate dogs, and even with animals there a limits to what is acceptable (and rightly so). This is a discipline that's grown over the last 70+ years. Everyone responds to feedback. Learning, trial and error, evolution etc. apply to all species, albeit at different rates.
inglor_cz 5y ago
"to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is" That sounds like a circular definition.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I believe there is a true self in all of us. Whatever that is, and it might change. We have no way to tell what that is, so. Discovering this is what personal development is about. This development should be as unhindered as possible. One, rather obvious, example is trans-gender people. That's the "who / what you are" part. The become what you want part is ranging from career choices to the kind of person, besides identity, you want to become. This should be as unhindered as possible as well. Personally, whenever someone, something or a society tries to hinder any of this, I have adverse reactions. Of course there are limits to this, personal freedom ends at other peoples noses. It's hard to tell the good solutions, it's easy to tell the bad ones. And tough love camps are definitely bad ones.
  - treis 5y ago
    What do you suggest when the true self is something like "serial killer" or "violent abuser" or "drug addict"?
    - mxkopy 5y ago
      If you truly want a life that involves running from the police, constantly wondering if your death is around the corner, having no sense of community/family etc. then there are places in society where you can do that productively (e.g. a soldier, special operative, foreign agent). But most children don't know that they don't want that, and that's the fault of the parents.
  - trupv 5y ago
    Your example is surely "who / what you aren't" though? A man who isn't a woman (or vice versa), but wants to be, for whatever reason.
dahfizz 5y ago
> The goal of parenting, so, should be to offer a safe environment for kids to become who they are and want to to become no matter what that is. Even if what they want is to become a drug addict felon? A mentally ill teenager does not know what is best for them. The parents job is to help their kids grow into happy, healthy members of society. The existence of rules does not preclude kids developing their own personality.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Straw man. Practically no one wants to become that. They end up becoming that because of their environment. Source: know a lot of drug addict felons. Grew up with a lot. None wanted to be that.