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Maybe not, but it stretches credulity that they have absolutely no idea, not even a guess, as to the cause. The ban letter says they previously received other n

Maybe not, but it stretches credulity that they have absolutely no idea, not even a guess, as to the cause. The ban letter says they previously received other notices. Where are they? And what steps, if any, did they take to resolve then? They don't even describe their app, which ordinarily would seen like the first thing to do to establish the injustice of the affair. "My app just makes generative cat photos. What's ban-worthy about that?"

ycombigator 5y ago
Does it though...
tablespoon 5y ago
> Maybe not, but it stretches credulity that they have absolutely no idea, not even a guess, as to the cause. It doesn't, actually. Everything I've read about Google indicates they're extremely opaque and will ban for bizarre reasons. Google itself might not even know. After all, machine learning isn't known for being able to explain itself. > The ban letter says they previously received other notices. Where are they? IIRC, I understand that someones those notices come all at once at the same time as the ban, if they come at all. It's also quite possible that the ban message from Google is in fact inaccurate. > And what steps, if any, did they take to resolve then? What steps could they take? My understanding is that Google offers no recourse to a human, and their automated appeals process might as well be a "reject all" rule (if it isn't literally that). You seem to be operating under the assumption that Google has implemented a fair and reasonable process, so the onus is on the person who runs afoul of it. However, everything I've read has led me to believe Google doesn't have a fair and reasonable process, because they rely too-heavily on algorithms and automation.
- zuminator 5y ago
  Thanks for the disagreement; those are all very reasonable points. However I reiterate I'm not condoning Google's behavior. Rather, I'm talking about the app-creator's own lack of transparency in trying to make his case. He should be more forthcoming to his audience about the nature of his app and whether in his estimation there was anything potentially illegal or objectionable about it. And if not, state so unambiguously. This is information he could convey regardless of how opaque Google's own process is.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  > After all, machine learning isn't known for being able to explain itself. Indeed; it is just multiple flagging by ML and that is it. Not much you or anyone can do.

ycombigator 5y ago

Does it though...

tablespoon 5y ago

> Maybe not, but it stretches credulity that they have absolutely no idea, not even a guess, as to the cause. It doesn't, actually. Everything I've read about Google indicates they're extremely opaque and will ban for bizarre reasons. Google itself might not even know. After all, machine learning isn't known for being able to explain itself. > The ban letter says they previously received other notices. Where are they? IIRC, I understand that someones those notices come all at once at the same time as the ban, if they come at all. It's also quite possible that the ban message from Google is in fact inaccurate. > And what steps, if any, did they take to resolve then? What steps could they take? My understanding is that Google offers no recourse to a human, and their automated appeals process might as well be a "reject all" rule (if it isn't literally that). You seem to be operating under the assumption that Google has implemented a fair and reasonable process, so the onus is on the person who runs afoul of it. However, everything I've read has led me to believe Google doesn't have a fair and reasonable process, because they rely too-heavily on algorithms and automation.

zuminator 5y ago
Thanks for the disagreement; those are all very reasonable points. However I reiterate I'm not condoning Google's behavior. Rather, I'm talking about the app-creator's own lack of transparency in trying to make his case. He should be more forthcoming to his audience about the nature of his app and whether in his estimation there was anything potentially illegal or objectionable about it. And if not, state so unambiguously. This is information he could convey regardless of how opaque Google's own process is.
tluyben2 5y ago
> After all, machine learning isn't known for being able to explain itself. Indeed; it is just multiple flagging by ML and that is it. Not much you or anyone can do.