7 ms·

Let's not be naive, if the market gave a shit about substance over marketing, we'd all be wearing Seikos and driving Toyotas.

throwmeariver1 5y ago
I still don't understand what you mean with the loss of dignity what is the loss of dignity? Do you mean that the arbitrary value you put on OMEGA watches should not be compromised by offering a cheaper version?
- asjldkfin 5y ago
  I'm not sure what there is to not understand? But yes, Swatch should not have released a cheaper facsimile if they wanted to maximize Omega's brand value.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
That's like saying selling prints of an artwork devalues the original artwork. Unless you're saying the entire watch collectors market is a scam driven by companies and not collectors.
- asjldkfin 5y ago
  I don't really understand what you're talking about- but yes, the watch industry- like all luxury industries, is primarily driven by marketing. It's not a scam, it's just the nature of the industry.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
    Have you ever collected anything? Do you think Action Comics #1 would drop in value if DC reprinted it? No. It's worth $3 million because the collectors care about the history that represents and the rarity of finding the original. Otherwise it's just ink on shitty paper. Collectors are deciding the value of the original and it can't be manipulated by merely making a new version. Omega would have to start selling the real thing for less money to tank the price. A clone can't do that. People aren't going to stop buying the original either. Think about knock off designer handbags. It's easy to get a really high quality fake. But no one is buying the fakes if they can have the real thing. A watch collector sure isn't buying the fake since the movement would play a big part in owning that specific model. You want the same model that went to the moon. Not the plastic version. Even if the supply of the clone is not constrained, I bet some colours are more popular than others, leading to some natural rarity. And in 50 years if they stop making these things and regular people throw them away, that Pluto watch will be worth more than the Mars and a complete collection will be worth even more. All they have done is create another thing for watch enthusiasts to collect.
    - asjldkfin 5y ago
      Let's not get into a long-winded debate about something that's well established, researched and at this point, proven. There's a reason why Patek doesn't sell a $1000 version of their watch, or why Porsche doesn't make a Corolla competitor. If you disagree, then you're free to do so. Just understand you're disagreeing with people with a lot more practical experience, knowledge and skin-in-the-game than you.
      - hotpotamus 5y ago
        I don't know about watches, but Porsche does make a Corolla competitor; the VW Golf. I'm sure the analogy isn't perfect, but obviously large manufacturers want to compete across market segments which is why the same company makes Audis and Bugattis as well. Also, as someone who's not that into watches - the Neptune and Mercury Swatches are gorgeous.
        CydeWeys 5y ago
        Porsche:VW::Omega:Swatch is a pretty good analogy, actually. In both cases you have a large conglomerate with different brands targeting different price points.
        asjldkfin 5y ago
        That's the point; VW puts out the "VW Golf", not the "Bugatti Golf", for a reason.
        hotpotamus 5y ago
        I agree it's not a perfect analogy. That said, I doubt you would sell me an Omega at a discount due to the existence of this new watch.
        Arainach 5y ago
        But they didn't compromise the Porsche brand to do so. Brand prestige is huge. A much better example here is the Volkswagen Phaeton. A truly stunning product at a great price point - significantly better than the luxury cars it competed with - but it failed because no one wanted to spend their luxury money on a brand associated with affordable normal products.
biztos 5y ago
Are we not? I have a more expensive watch but my daily d(r)iver is a Seiko SKX009. Indestructible and with a bracelet upgrade it looks great. And here in Asia you see a lot of marketing for Seiko, and tons of shops. And there’s always Grand Seiko if you want to make watch snobs STFU. Or mods if you want to out-nerd the watch nerds. I don’t own a Toyota yet but I probably will buy one soon!

throwmeariver1 5y ago

I still don't understand what you mean with the loss of dignity what is the loss of dignity? Do you mean that the arbitrary value you put on OMEGA watches should not be compromised by offering a cheaper version?

asjldkfin 5y ago
I'm not sure what there is to not understand? But yes, Swatch should not have released a cheaper facsimile if they wanted to maximize Omega's brand value.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

That's like saying selling prints of an artwork devalues the original artwork. Unless you're saying the entire watch collectors market is a scam driven by companies and not collectors.

asjldkfin 5y ago
I don't really understand what you're talking about- but yes, the watch industry- like all luxury industries, is primarily driven by marketing. It's not a scam, it's just the nature of the industry.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
  Have you ever collected anything? Do you think Action Comics #1 would drop in value if DC reprinted it? No. It's worth $3 million because the collectors care about the history that represents and the rarity of finding the original. Otherwise it's just ink on shitty paper. Collectors are deciding the value of the original and it can't be manipulated by merely making a new version. Omega would have to start selling the real thing for less money to tank the price. A clone can't do that. People aren't going to stop buying the original either. Think about knock off designer handbags. It's easy to get a really high quality fake. But no one is buying the fakes if they can have the real thing. A watch collector sure isn't buying the fake since the movement would play a big part in owning that specific model. You want the same model that went to the moon. Not the plastic version. Even if the supply of the clone is not constrained, I bet some colours are more popular than others, leading to some natural rarity. And in 50 years if they stop making these things and regular people throw them away, that Pluto watch will be worth more than the Mars and a complete collection will be worth even more. All they have done is create another thing for watch enthusiasts to collect.
  - asjldkfin 5y ago
    Let's not get into a long-winded debate about something that's well established, researched and at this point, proven. There's a reason why Patek doesn't sell a $1000 version of their watch, or why Porsche doesn't make a Corolla competitor. If you disagree, then you're free to do so. Just understand you're disagreeing with people with a lot more practical experience, knowledge and skin-in-the-game than you.
    - hotpotamus 5y ago
      I don't know about watches, but Porsche does make a Corolla competitor; the VW Golf. I'm sure the analogy isn't perfect, but obviously large manufacturers want to compete across market segments which is why the same company makes Audis and Bugattis as well. Also, as someone who's not that into watches - the Neptune and Mercury Swatches are gorgeous.
      - CydeWeys 5y ago
        Porsche:VW::Omega:Swatch is a pretty good analogy, actually. In both cases you have a large conglomerate with different brands targeting different price points.
      - asjldkfin 5y ago
        That's the point; VW puts out the "VW Golf", not the "Bugatti Golf", for a reason.
        hotpotamus 5y ago
        I agree it's not a perfect analogy. That said, I doubt you would sell me an Omega at a discount due to the existence of this new watch.
      - Arainach 5y ago
        But they didn't compromise the Porsche brand to do so. Brand prestige is huge. A much better example here is the Volkswagen Phaeton. A truly stunning product at a great price point - significantly better than the luxury cars it competed with - but it failed because no one wanted to spend their luxury money on a brand associated with affordable normal products.

biztos 5y ago

Are we not? I have a more expensive watch but my daily d(r)iver is a Seiko SKX009. Indestructible and with a bracelet upgrade it looks great. And here in Asia you see a lot of marketing for Seiko, and tons of shops. And there’s always Grand Seiko if you want to make watch snobs STFU. Or mods if you want to out-nerd the watch nerds. I don’t own a Toyota yet but I probably will buy one soon!