4 ms·

Out of curiosity, why did you put quotes around the word "marriage"? Am I correctly interpreting your comment as implying that same-sex marriage is not legitima

Out of curiosity, why did you put quotes around the word "marriage"? Am I correctly interpreting your comment as implying that same-sex marriage is not legitimate, and that children should not be aware of its existence (or at least, that its inclusion makes a book inappropriate for children)?

mistrial9 5y ago
I think people get very upset quickly, and I dont want to be upsetting.. so lets not argue in any case, even if we do not agree.. I come from a religious background, and I support plural, open society myself. So same-sex couples are a thing, and people do that.. so they are free to do that.. as I am free to pursue a stricter social definition. There are people on both sides of this discussion, that feel so strongly about their point of view, that they actively, definitely, without apology and sometimes by unfair means, seek to present, influence and be role models for children in formative stages of learning. Therefore, on both sides of this topic, I believe that "open" material like books for children, that there needs to be safety and guidelines, in the clear open discussion, about what is in them.. for the parents, family and their social groups to make their own decisions. Lastly, you are right, I added quotes around "Marriage" because in my tradition, Marriage means a sacred union of one man and one woman. I am committed to support "civil unions" for legal rights of same sex couples, especially high-stakes end-of-life things like medical authority and inheritance, but no one cares about me personally, these are large topics that are decided in a civil process. I support that civil process.
- morelisp 5y ago
  It's child abuse for parents to hide the existence of gay relationships from their children. You're advocating child abuse under genteel language.
  - pirate787 5y ago
    That's an absurd argument. Reductio ad absurdum. Every parent has the right to determine when and how their kids learn about various developmental and sexual topics.
    - SamBam 5y ago
      Hmm, about 100 years of progressive era educational reforms would like to argue with you about that. Why is it that we consider sexual topics the one line that needs parental consent to learn or teach about? Seventeenth century American Puritanism, mostly.
    - bwb 5y ago
      ya going to disagree here... society/education needs to play a big role here. Parents should homeschool their kids if they want that kind of control. Otherwise they should trust the education system to teach this and do the research to know when they should be taught.
      - morelisp 5y ago
        Parents should not be able to justify abusing their kids by homeschooling them either. The idea that same-sex marriage is a "sexual topic" but marriage between a man and a woman is not is patently ridiculous and we need to start recognizing that it's a cover for a hateful ideology. If ignored we're going to see the repeal of not just Obergefell but probably even Lawrence within the next two decades.
        bwb 5y ago
        Ya I agree, but that isn't ever going to pass as a law in the USA given the religious right and broken culture. I think everyone should go to public school and outlaw private schools as well. Everyone should start from the same system. Totally agree on the idea of same-sex marriage.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    The most common same-sex analogue to heterosexual marriage by far is in fact sworn brotherhood. "Gay marriage" is a modern innovation that mostly matters as an indication of legal status, but not a good descriptor of actual social relationships. Teach your kids about sworn brotherhood, and they will be very well equipped to understand the implications of gay marriage, when that (along with the non-trivial complexities of things like sexual orientation, which will be quite simply illegible and irrelevant to them prior to the biological changes of adolescence) becomes more relevant to them.
- NoraCodes 5y ago
  This is a lot of words to say that you are a homophobe.

mistrial9 5y ago

I think people get very upset quickly, and I dont want to be upsetting.. so lets not argue in any case, even if we do not agree.. I come from a religious background, and I support plural, open society myself. So same-sex couples are a thing, and people do that.. so they are free to do that.. as I am free to pursue a stricter social definition. There are people on both sides of this discussion, that feel so strongly about their point of view, that they actively, definitely, without apology and sometimes by unfair means, seek to present, influence and be role models for children in formative stages of learning. Therefore, on both sides of this topic, I believe that "open" material like books for children, that there needs to be safety and guidelines, in the clear open discussion, about what is in them.. for the parents, family and their social groups to make their own decisions. Lastly, you are right, I added quotes around "Marriage" because in my tradition, Marriage means a sacred union of one man and one woman. I am committed to support "civil unions" for legal rights of same sex couples, especially high-stakes end-of-life things like medical authority and inheritance, but no one cares about me personally, these are large topics that are decided in a civil process. I support that civil process.

morelisp 5y ago
It's child abuse for parents to hide the existence of gay relationships from their children. You're advocating child abuse under genteel language.
- pirate787 5y ago
  That's an absurd argument. Reductio ad absurdum. Every parent has the right to determine when and how their kids learn about various developmental and sexual topics.
  - SamBam 5y ago
    Hmm, about 100 years of progressive era educational reforms would like to argue with you about that. Why is it that we consider sexual topics the one line that needs parental consent to learn or teach about? Seventeenth century American Puritanism, mostly.
  - bwb 5y ago
    ya going to disagree here... society/education needs to play a big role here. Parents should homeschool their kids if they want that kind of control. Otherwise they should trust the education system to teach this and do the research to know when they should be taught.
    - morelisp 5y ago
      Parents should not be able to justify abusing their kids by homeschooling them either. The idea that same-sex marriage is a "sexual topic" but marriage between a man and a woman is not is patently ridiculous and we need to start recognizing that it's a cover for a hateful ideology. If ignored we're going to see the repeal of not just Obergefell but probably even Lawrence within the next two decades.
      - bwb 5y ago
        Ya I agree, but that isn't ever going to pass as a law in the USA given the religious right and broken culture. I think everyone should go to public school and outlaw private schools as well. Everyone should start from the same system. Totally agree on the idea of same-sex marriage.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  The most common same-sex analogue to heterosexual marriage by far is in fact sworn brotherhood. "Gay marriage" is a modern innovation that mostly matters as an indication of legal status, but not a good descriptor of actual social relationships. Teach your kids about sworn brotherhood, and they will be very well equipped to understand the implications of gay marriage, when that (along with the non-trivial complexities of things like sexual orientation, which will be quite simply illegible and irrelevant to them prior to the biological changes of adolescence) becomes more relevant to them.
NoraCodes 5y ago
This is a lot of words to say that you are a homophobe.