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A lot of people don't have fiber options to begin with (especially rural users). I wonder if 5G/NR will give them better service than 4G/LTE. I doubt wireless

A lot of people don't have fiber options to begin with (especially rural users). I wonder if 5G/NR will give them better service than 4G/LTE. I doubt wireless carriers will ever be able to seriously compete with built out fiber in the long run. Once it is there, the costs have been paid and the provider is mainly just raking in residuals while keeping the lights on.

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TreeInBuxton 5y ago
Rural user here - yes, 5G is an absolute godsend, 4G was over congested and had extremely unreliable ping (the other option was 2mbit ADSL), I now have a fairly stable 250/100 Internet connection, with much lower latency
shagie 5y ago
> A lot of people don't have fiber options to begin with (especially rural users). I wonder if 5G/NR will give them better service than 4G/LTE. The flip side to that is the "many rural users are at the edges of existing coverage networks". A 4G network can reach about 10 miles (16km) - a 5G network is about 1000 feet or 0.2 miles (about 300 meters). Unless the providers are placing these on every other power pole, most rural users aren't likely to see 5G coverage. For what it's worth, my parents' house is about 0.1 miles from the road and 0.5 miles from the next nearest neighbor. I believe that it is unlikely that wireless 5G will get out there (they don't have 4G service either - they're in a valley and use a femtocell for home phone use). They don't have cable or fiber either and switched from a load balanced pair of DSL lines to Starlink.
- Osiris 5y ago
  I thought 5G in that 600mhz band has much better coverage. Isn't it only ultra wideband that's that low?
  - shagie 5y ago
    (searching) - yes it can... https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/10/the-definitive-guide-to-5g-low-mid-and-high-band-speeds/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/10/the-definitive-guide-to-5... > One low band (600-700MHz) tower can cover hundreds of square miles with 5G service that ranges in speed from 30 to 250 megabits per second (Mbps). Though... I'm still going to be skeptical with the "there are still some significant areas that lack 4g coverage" https://fcc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6c1b2e73d9d749cdb7bc88a0d1bdd25b https://fcc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=... Look at the "how many areas only have one provider" or that you can see the topography and valleys in the coverage map.
  - zw123456 5y ago
    The basics are this, the lower the frequency because lower frequencies propagate better (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_path_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_path_loss) but... you will get less capacity, because at the lower frequencies there is less spectrum (it is simple arithmetic there is 1000Mhz of spectrum below 1Ghz, but there is 100Ghz of spectrum below 100Ghz (setting aside the details about how it gets allocated etc.) The amount of capacity you can achieve is based on Shannon limit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theore... it's the classic engineering trade off, better propagation vs. more capacity. that is why the carriers want low, medium and high band in their inventory, low is considered < 1Ghz, medium is considered 1Ghz - 10Ghz, high is > 10Ghz, roughly speaking
    - powerapple 5y ago
      probably make sense in rural areas, fewer users, larger area.
- selectodude 5y ago
  I can’t speak for anywhere else, but in Chicago Verizon is literally placing 5G UWB bases on every other light pole.
  - shagie 5y ago
    What will the coverage be like outside of Freeport, IL though? Its this type of poles that I'm more interested in - https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2639251,-89.787017,3a,75y,65.5h,102.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3hvN9cXuBhz3jRIcWsQetA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2639251,-89.787017,3a,75y,65...
  - thfuran 5y ago
    Surely you can recognize the difference between that and somewhere rural enough that they don't even have lightpoles and if they did, a 5g cell on one could reach at most one customer anyways.
kingcharles 5y ago
Not just rural. I'm in downtown Chicago and the cheapest wired connection I can get to my home is $71,000 install and $800/month from Comcast. Finally got T-Mobile Home Internet (5G). Shipped the access point overnight to me. Plugged in. 600Mbps peak. Never seen a slowdown that affects my heavyweight Net use (e.g. streaming HD).
- selectodude 5y ago
  lol what part of downtown Chicago is that per chance? Comcast is required by law to serve every household in their franchise area so I’m extremely curious.
  - cozzyd 5y ago
    Yeah ... I think I have 3 choices for gigabit internet in my building, and it's probably one of the smallest unit count buildings in the loop.
- deleted 5y ago
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TreeInBuxton 5y ago

Rural user here - yes, 5G is an absolute godsend, 4G was over congested and had extremely unreliable ping (the other option was 2mbit ADSL), I now have a fairly stable 250/100 Internet connection, with much lower latency

shagie 5y ago

> A lot of people don't have fiber options to begin with (especially rural users). I wonder if 5G/NR will give them better service than 4G/LTE. The flip side to that is the "many rural users are at the edges of existing coverage networks". A 4G network can reach about 10 miles (16km) - a 5G network is about 1000 feet or 0.2 miles (about 300 meters). Unless the providers are placing these on every other power pole, most rural users aren't likely to see 5G coverage. For what it's worth, my parents' house is about 0.1 miles from the road and 0.5 miles from the next nearest neighbor. I believe that it is unlikely that wireless 5G will get out there (they don't have 4G service either - they're in a valley and use a femtocell for home phone use). They don't have cable or fiber either and switched from a load balanced pair of DSL lines to Starlink.

Osiris 5y ago
I thought 5G in that 600mhz band has much better coverage. Isn't it only ultra wideband that's that low?
- shagie 5y ago
  (searching) - yes it can... https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/10/the-definitive-guide-to-5g-low-mid-and-high-band-speeds/ https://venturebeat.com/2019/12/10/the-definitive-guide-to-5... > One low band (600-700MHz) tower can cover hundreds of square miles with 5G service that ranges in speed from 30 to 250 megabits per second (Mbps). Though... I'm still going to be skeptical with the "there are still some significant areas that lack 4g coverage" https://fcc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6c1b2e73d9d749cdb7bc88a0d1bdd25b https://fcc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=... Look at the "how many areas only have one provider" or that you can see the topography and valleys in the coverage map.
- zw123456 5y ago
  The basics are this, the lower the frequency because lower frequencies propagate better (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_path_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-space_path_loss) but... you will get less capacity, because at the lower frequencies there is less spectrum (it is simple arithmetic there is 1000Mhz of spectrum below 1Ghz, but there is 100Ghz of spectrum below 100Ghz (setting aside the details about how it gets allocated etc.) The amount of capacity you can achieve is based on Shannon limit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theorem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon%E2%80%93Hartley_theore... it's the classic engineering trade off, better propagation vs. more capacity. that is why the carriers want low, medium and high band in their inventory, low is considered < 1Ghz, medium is considered 1Ghz - 10Ghz, high is > 10Ghz, roughly speaking
  - powerapple 5y ago
    probably make sense in rural areas, fewer users, larger area.
selectodude 5y ago
I can’t speak for anywhere else, but in Chicago Verizon is literally placing 5G UWB bases on every other light pole.
- shagie 5y ago
  What will the coverage be like outside of Freeport, IL though? Its this type of poles that I'm more interested in - https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2639251,-89.787017,3a,75y,65.5h,102.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3hvN9cXuBhz3jRIcWsQetA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2639251,-89.787017,3a,75y,65...
- thfuran 5y ago
  Surely you can recognize the difference between that and somewhere rural enough that they don't even have lightpoles and if they did, a 5g cell on one could reach at most one customer anyways.

kingcharles 5y ago

Not just rural. I'm in downtown Chicago and the cheapest wired connection I can get to my home is $71,000 install and $800/month from Comcast. Finally got T-Mobile Home Internet (5G). Shipped the access point overnight to me. Plugged in. 600Mbps peak. Never seen a slowdown that affects my heavyweight Net use (e.g. streaming HD).

selectodude 5y ago
lol what part of downtown Chicago is that per chance? Comcast is required by law to serve every household in their franchise area so I’m extremely curious.
- cozzyd 5y ago
  Yeah ... I think I have 3 choices for gigabit internet in my building, and it's probably one of the smallest unit count buildings in the loop.
deleted 5y ago
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