3 ms·

> Unpopular opinion: Linux desktops needs to be proprietary software friendly. As in accept blob installers that can install desktop applications that work well

> Unpopular opinion: Linux desktops needs to be proprietary software friendly. As in accept blob installers that can install desktop applications that work well on any major DE and without consideration for package managers. Paid apps should also be a thing on Linux. Isn't this already the case? I'm running Spotify and Steam games with no issues here. While I agree with your greater point that a system that gets out of your way is nice, I always find myself swearing when using Windows and trying to bend macOS to do things the way I want. In the end I just gave up and went back to Linux on a "basic" PC (no Nvidia or multiple GPUs on my laptop). The two major things I miss are HD streaming on PrimeVideo and Photoshop, both of which work well on Windows and macOS. For the former I bought I firetv stick and for the latter, I dual boot (I only need it occasionally).

_8j50 5y ago
They have to do a lot of work coming up with custom installers or packages for distros. If you have gentoo+kde for example you can't just download a blob, open it and just have it work. It depends on what you are doing I guess. I remember getting frustrated at windows too. Linux is the best at being configurable and controllable from an administrative workload perspective but not from a productivity or entertainment application UX.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  > you can't just download a blob, open it and just have it work Isn't that exactly what appimages are? E.g. download Krita, double click, done. Also, I thought with mobile people finally realized that "download blobs" is much worse than just installing from stores/repos? Even Windows has winget by now.
  - _8j50 5y ago
    That's the problem with big picture thinking. You are right, in the grand scheme of things it is better. But as a consumer it sucks. Which repo? Now I have to maintain repos alongside apps? Why can't the app take care of its own compatibility and upgrade needs? Why am I involved? I just want to use the damn thing without interruption. On mac, I don't use their appstore, I just get dmg images and get going. Same on windows. On linux, I try to stick to the package manager but man! The moment I touch python I regret not using venv and avoiding any interaction with the system's python almost every time. Or if a distro package lacks some feature because of distro decisions which should have been install time decisions and now I have to build from source and figure out aclocal dev packages,deps,ugh...I accept the pain, part of then package but I won't pretend it feels good.
    - diffeomorphism 5y ago
      > Which repo? Now I have to maintain repos alongside apps? Why can't the app take care of its own compatibility and upgrade needs? Why am I involved? I just want to use the damn thing without interruption. Which is exactly why distros have very big repos, iOS has exactly one store and so does android (yeah, yeah amazon, fdroid...; few people install these). So that you never, ever have to care about that. Simple rule of thumb as a consumer: If it is not in the repo/store/steam then it does not exist. Same for iOS or android by the way: If you need to jailbreak/root for an app, for the average user it might as well not exist. > On mac, I don't use their appstore, I just get dmg images and get going. Same on windows. Yeah, same for appimages. And you don't use the mac appstore because it currently is much worse than the comparable linux offering. Yet, both apple and MS are clearly pushing in that direction. > and now I have to build from source and figure out aclocal dev packages,deps,ugh... Er, no you don't. If the mac .dmg has those same issues you don't do that, if the windows .exe has those same issues you don't do that. You simply say "that sucks" and go on with your life and install the "fixed" one half a year later. In fact for windows software that seems so much more painful (compared to linux) that I would not even attempt it. It is nice that linux is so much better at that, but still as a user you simply don't do that.
      - _8j50 5y ago
        > Simple rule of thumb as a consumer: If it is not in the repo/store/steam then it does not exist. Same for iOS or android by the way: If you need to jailbreak/root for an app, for the average user it might as well not exist. Forget all that. I am talking about gary's clipboard manager or something. This is crazy, you can't even install elasticsearch or Mongo without adding a repo! My whole point was this approach works om servers but on desktops, the use case is different. I want random apps by random people on their random site. Not distro accepted and approved stuff that was digested through layers of bureaucracy and one size fits all crowdpleasing. That is obviously not working. > Er, no you don't. If the mac .dmg has those same issues you don't do that, if the windows .exe has those same issues you don't do that. I don't have those issues on mac and windows because the gatekeeping distro maintainers aren't choosing how to build or preconfigure it. It is a direct relationship between I the consumer and the developer. No middle man! No system deps (well.. except on mac with homebrew but not dmg)
- sph 5y ago
  > custom installers or packages for distros Heard of Flathub?
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I really wish I hadn't.
    - sph 5y ago
      Yawn. You've told us about your hate for Flatpak multiple times—we discussed it before. Good bait though.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        You've also suggested Flatpak as a panacea for packaging several times. There's really nothing to discuss here; I'm just letting people know that from a user perspective, dealing with Flatpak feels like a second job.

_8j50 5y ago

They have to do a lot of work coming up with custom installers or packages for distros. If you have gentoo+kde for example you can't just download a blob, open it and just have it work. It depends on what you are doing I guess. I remember getting frustrated at windows too. Linux is the best at being configurable and controllable from an administrative workload perspective but not from a productivity or entertainment application UX.

diffeomorphism 5y ago
> you can't just download a blob, open it and just have it work Isn't that exactly what appimages are? E.g. download Krita, double click, done. Also, I thought with mobile people finally realized that "download blobs" is much worse than just installing from stores/repos? Even Windows has winget by now.
- _8j50 5y ago
  That's the problem with big picture thinking. You are right, in the grand scheme of things it is better. But as a consumer it sucks. Which repo? Now I have to maintain repos alongside apps? Why can't the app take care of its own compatibility and upgrade needs? Why am I involved? I just want to use the damn thing without interruption. On mac, I don't use their appstore, I just get dmg images and get going. Same on windows. On linux, I try to stick to the package manager but man! The moment I touch python I regret not using venv and avoiding any interaction with the system's python almost every time. Or if a distro package lacks some feature because of distro decisions which should have been install time decisions and now I have to build from source and figure out aclocal dev packages,deps,ugh...I accept the pain, part of then package but I won't pretend it feels good.
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    > Which repo? Now I have to maintain repos alongside apps? Why can't the app take care of its own compatibility and upgrade needs? Why am I involved? I just want to use the damn thing without interruption. Which is exactly why distros have very big repos, iOS has exactly one store and so does android (yeah, yeah amazon, fdroid...; few people install these). So that you never, ever have to care about that. Simple rule of thumb as a consumer: If it is not in the repo/store/steam then it does not exist. Same for iOS or android by the way: If you need to jailbreak/root for an app, for the average user it might as well not exist. > On mac, I don't use their appstore, I just get dmg images and get going. Same on windows. Yeah, same for appimages. And you don't use the mac appstore because it currently is much worse than the comparable linux offering. Yet, both apple and MS are clearly pushing in that direction. > and now I have to build from source and figure out aclocal dev packages,deps,ugh... Er, no you don't. If the mac .dmg has those same issues you don't do that, if the windows .exe has those same issues you don't do that. You simply say "that sucks" and go on with your life and install the "fixed" one half a year later. In fact for windows software that seems so much more painful (compared to linux) that I would not even attempt it. It is nice that linux is so much better at that, but still as a user you simply don't do that.
    - _8j50 5y ago
      > Simple rule of thumb as a consumer: If it is not in the repo/store/steam then it does not exist. Same for iOS or android by the way: If you need to jailbreak/root for an app, for the average user it might as well not exist. Forget all that. I am talking about gary's clipboard manager or something. This is crazy, you can't even install elasticsearch or Mongo without adding a repo! My whole point was this approach works om servers but on desktops, the use case is different. I want random apps by random people on their random site. Not distro accepted and approved stuff that was digested through layers of bureaucracy and one size fits all crowdpleasing. That is obviously not working. > Er, no you don't. If the mac .dmg has those same issues you don't do that, if the windows .exe has those same issues you don't do that. I don't have those issues on mac and windows because the gatekeeping distro maintainers aren't choosing how to build or preconfigure it. It is a direct relationship between I the consumer and the developer. No middle man! No system deps (well.. except on mac with homebrew but not dmg)
sph 5y ago
> custom installers or packages for distros Heard of Flathub?
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I really wish I hadn't.
  - sph 5y ago
    Yawn. You've told us about your hate for Flatpak multiple times—we discussed it before. Good bait though.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      You've also suggested Flatpak as a panacea for packaging several times. There's really nothing to discuss here; I'm just letting people know that from a user perspective, dealing with Flatpak feels like a second job.