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I bet Linux, whatever distro you use, wasn’t right for you to begin with; but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking. Trust me, you can tweak macOS to

I bet Linux, whatever distro you use, wasn’t right for you to begin with; but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking. Trust me, you can tweak macOS to your liking, as well. I used to be a Linux lover, but after trying for almost a decade, for my desktop needs, I’ve given up on Linux, and adopted macOS. macOS is a POSIX environment, and you have almost the whole GNU ecosystem available to you, if you want.

loloquwowndueo 5y ago
Well- one of my main gripes was that I had to spend a lot of time and work getting macOS to behave like Linux did - so at some point I decided to stop wasting my time and use the real thing :) so “whatever distro you use, wasn’t right for you to begin with; but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking.” You’re not entirely wrong but it was far less painful than tweaking macOS. “ you can tweak macOS to your liking” - see above. “ you have almost the whole GNU ecosystem available to you” yeah I tried the whole ports / fink thing and it was too much work vs. the equivalent on any Linux distribution (no extra work at all).
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  Homebrew is a much more reliable package manager than macports. Trying to make OSX into Linux might have been the problem there, it’s just a little different in many aspects. What kind of tools did you miss?
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  brew install coreutils Getting GNU tools on MacOS is super easy and honestly I don't know anyone using ports/fink. All of my development ends up on Linux machines, in rare cases I need something specific to Linux or my production environment, I just connect to a dev machine but for the most part I use MacOS as the primary desktop at work along with everyone else. For me it's all about workflow. I spend a lot of time in alacritty, vscode, and a browser with bitwarden. I'm covered on every OS with those tools so I've stopped caring about OS all together, I like bits of all of them, and dislike bits of all of them.
  - loloquwowndueo 5y ago
    Is brew included with macOS these days? It wasn’t when I did all this. It’s still one more command to get coreutils installed vs. what’s needed on Linux.
    - bastardoperator 5y ago
      Nope. Yeah, well, I don't have to configure anything on MacOS when I plug in three 4k USB-C monitors. Now what? =]
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Me neither? Pretty much every major distro (anything using GNOME or KDE) will extend your display just fine.
- mbreese 5y ago
  Anytime I “need” a more Linux environment (development, etc), I would default to spinning up a Linux VM or Docker container. Like you, I think it’s easier to just use the real thing. Also, I don’t like to install too much with brew, etc as I like to keep my primary computer as stock as possible. I still worry about library conflicts. This way, I have a better UI for non-dev work, but I still get the full *nix command line experience when I want it. Anymore though, instead of a VM, I end up SSHing to a cloud server. Tools that can be run from the server (vscode, rstudio, etc) make this even easier as I can use the same interface from multiple computers.
senko 5y ago
That's an interesting data point but it doesn't generalize. I used Linux daily for many years, then switched to Mac for 7 years (entirely due to HW/price being better at the time than other options), then back to Linux for the last in couple. I was happy to leave the Mac ecosystem because it looked to me like the OS was slowly sliding down the drain. Also, people saying that macOS is POSIX and therefore almost like Linux remind me of people saying having cats is just like having children. At this point I just smile and nod sagely :)
galangalalgol 5y ago
Fedora/rhel/centos and the debian/ubuntu all work just fine for me out of the box. I spend a lot longer configuring firefox on a new machine than the distro. Mac is ok too, but all my muscle memory is off. Same for my wifes phone which is an iphone vs my android.
xaduha 5y ago
> I bet Linux, whatever distro you use, wasn’t right for you to begin with; but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking. In my case, absolutely not. I'm using Solus (Budgie) on my notebook and that's because it suits me basically OOTB. What I do have though is a headless NixOS server to which I connect with VSCode for a dev environment. But I wouldn't use NixOS on desktop when Solus is a much better choice, best of both world in my opinion.
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  What’s special about Solus? Looking at its website, it looks like any other standard Linux distro.
  - xaduha 5y ago
    I thought so too, but every time I tried to move on to something else it didn't last and I always went back to Solus. It's just well put together, a recipe like any other, but with a pinch of love I guess. Something you wouldn't get just by looking at a menu.
  - QuikAccount 5y ago
    Not the person you are asking but Solus is just very solid. There is nothing super special about it but it is one of the few distros I have ever used that "just works."
QuikAccount 5y ago
I had to use a Mac for work for a while. You are right you can tweak MacOS to your liking but the difference is Linux distros actively encourage tweaking while Apple actively discourages and tries to get in the way.
- alwillis 5y ago
  Apple actively discourages and tries to get in the way This is false. Apple doesn’t actively discourage anything. Apple put all of options in the operating system for a reason and ships with a Terminal. The GUI allows regular people to get shit done without requiring them to be experts. Meanwhile, developers, hackers, tinkerers, can tweak to their heart’s content on the things that matter to them while getting the benefits of the Apple ecosystem. It’s never been an either/or. Editing a config file on Linux isn’t inherently “better” than doing the same on macOS.
  - vincent-manis 5y ago
    I switched to macOS last year. My software inventory is overwhelmingly free software, and I currently have Emacs, TeX, Audacity, Inkscape, the Gimp, and a dozen or so Scheme and Lisp systems all running just fine [1]. In fact, I have a pretty good reproduction of the Ubuntu system I was running before. I have no complaints. As for tweaking, the two major tweaks I depend upon are remapping Caps Lock as Compose (Karabiner lets me do that, along with some stuff I found that lets me use an X11 style XCompose file), and turning off GateKeeper completely (that's one thing I would never tell a naïve user how to do, or even that it is possible). No claims that macOS is great for everybody, but I'm an experienced Unix user (my first Unix system was V7 on a PDP-11/45), and it works great for me. [1] The one hack I needed was that you need a workaround to install MIT Scheme on Apple Silicon.
    - awilfox 5y ago
      I wonder if that has any influence on it. My first Unix system was Solaris in the 90s, and I never felt the need to tweak it endlessly. Perhaps those who started on Linux and grew accustomed to tweaking everything from the outset find some enjoyment in it that I just don't. Anyone out there need a research paper on human behaviour related to preference of OS based on formative computing experiences? I'd be fascinated. :)
yakak 5y ago
I tried to use OsX for a few years since I thought it might help with resume soft skills, etc. But nothing is worth the frustration of Apple and their damn semi-GEO-locked mess of a cloud. Every Linux just works, even with obscure keyboard layouts, and installs security updates or necessities without ever dragging you into some store login drama. It would be interesting if people really finished a proper Darwin setup that could provide a good POSIX without service dependencies on Apple. But at that point, there are the existing BSDs.
smoldesu 5y ago
If I have to spend my time tweaking an operating system to my liking, it's going to be the one that's cheaper and has less lock-in.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zibzab 5y ago
> but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking. Serious question: why do you assume that? My "tweaking" of a new Ubuntu machine is normally limited to changing the background. I am busy getting work done and don't really want or need to tweak things.
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  Default keyboard shortcuts were one for me. Cut, Copy and Paste in Terminal for example.
spacexsucks 5y ago
Patently a lie. I have been struggling to make mac os mine for last 6 years with 40hrs/wk on it. Compared to my personal linux where I barely spend 10-12 per week. Just cant. On top SIP filesystem integrity protections just get in the way. Mac gets int way when programming, video editing, data management, power system.
- sph 5y ago
  macOS is a great system to watch videos, collect photos, take notes and do casual and very common multimedia tasks. It is excellent and unrivalled at that. But for engineering and power users it becomes more restrictive the more your mastery and requirements increase. Linux is pretty crap at multimedia. But for computing, tinkering and pushing your hardware to its full capacity it is absolutely the best. Windows is average, and that's not to disparage it, au contraire. It's decent at multimedia, not as much as macOS and decent at tinkering, but not as much as Linux.
  - awilfox 5y ago
    "Casual" is relative: digiKam choked on my 55K photo library where Lightroom Classic works fine. Adobe XD's only libre competitor that I knew of was Pencil, which died three years ago after Mozilla killed off XUL and they tried to convert to Node/Electron. And don't even get me started on the libre alternatives to InDesign. (Three years and counting since the last stable Scribus, despite nine beta releases.) I wanted so badly to do production work on Linux. I really, really did. Engineering… depends on your definition. My preferred dev environments, CLion and Qt Creator, work fine on Mac as well. I'll agree that CAD has suffered since Autodesk went insane and FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, and the like work much better on Linux. On the science end, I find OsiriX Lite to be a much better experience than Kradview, and that's assuming you build all the KDE 4 libraries to even make Kradview work at all.

loloquwowndueo 5y ago

Well- one of my main gripes was that I had to spend a lot of time and work getting macOS to behave like Linux did - so at some point I decided to stop wasting my time and use the real thing :) so “whatever distro you use, wasn’t right for you to begin with; but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking.” You’re not entirely wrong but it was far less painful than tweaking macOS. “ you can tweak macOS to your liking” - see above. “ you have almost the whole GNU ecosystem available to you” yeah I tried the whole ports / fink thing and it was too much work vs. the equivalent on any Linux distribution (no extra work at all).

ricardobeat 5y ago
Homebrew is a much more reliable package manager than macports. Trying to make OSX into Linux might have been the problem there, it’s just a little different in many aspects. What kind of tools did you miss?
bastardoperator 5y ago
brew install coreutils Getting GNU tools on MacOS is super easy and honestly I don't know anyone using ports/fink. All of my development ends up on Linux machines, in rare cases I need something specific to Linux or my production environment, I just connect to a dev machine but for the most part I use MacOS as the primary desktop at work along with everyone else. For me it's all about workflow. I spend a lot of time in alacritty, vscode, and a browser with bitwarden. I'm covered on every OS with those tools so I've stopped caring about OS all together, I like bits of all of them, and dislike bits of all of them.
- loloquwowndueo 5y ago
  Is brew included with macOS these days? It wasn’t when I did all this. It’s still one more command to get coreutils installed vs. what’s needed on Linux.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    Nope. Yeah, well, I don't have to configure anything on MacOS when I plug in three 4k USB-C monitors. Now what? =]
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Me neither? Pretty much every major distro (anything using GNOME or KDE) will extend your display just fine.
mbreese 5y ago
Anytime I “need” a more Linux environment (development, etc), I would default to spinning up a Linux VM or Docker container. Like you, I think it’s easier to just use the real thing. Also, I don’t like to install too much with brew, etc as I like to keep my primary computer as stock as possible. I still worry about library conflicts. This way, I have a better UI for non-dev work, but I still get the full *nix command line experience when I want it. Anymore though, instead of a VM, I end up SSHing to a cloud server. Tools that can be run from the server (vscode, rstudio, etc) make this even easier as I can use the same interface from multiple computers.

senko 5y ago

That's an interesting data point but it doesn't generalize. I used Linux daily for many years, then switched to Mac for 7 years (entirely due to HW/price being better at the time than other options), then back to Linux for the last in couple. I was happy to leave the Mac ecosystem because it looked to me like the OS was slowly sliding down the drain. Also, people saying that macOS is POSIX and therefore almost like Linux remind me of people saying having cats is just like having children. At this point I just smile and nod sagely :)

galangalalgol 5y ago

Fedora/rhel/centos and the debian/ubuntu all work just fine for me out of the box. I spend a lot longer configuring firefox on a new machine than the distro. Mac is ok too, but all my muscle memory is off. Same for my wifes phone which is an iphone vs my android.

xaduha 5y ago

> I bet Linux, whatever distro you use, wasn’t right for you to begin with; but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking. In my case, absolutely not. I'm using Solus (Budgie) on my notebook and that's because it suits me basically OOTB. What I do have though is a headless NixOS server to which I connect with VSCode for a dev environment. But I wouldn't use NixOS on desktop when Solus is a much better choice, best of both world in my opinion.

ricardobeat 5y ago
What’s special about Solus? Looking at its website, it looks like any other standard Linux distro.
- xaduha 5y ago
  I thought so too, but every time I tried to move on to something else it didn't last and I always went back to Solus. It's just well put together, a recipe like any other, but with a pinch of love I guess. Something you wouldn't get just by looking at a menu.
- QuikAccount 5y ago
  Not the person you are asking but Solus is just very solid. There is nothing super special about it but it is one of the few distros I have ever used that "just works."

QuikAccount 5y ago

I had to use a Mac for work for a while. You are right you can tweak MacOS to your liking but the difference is Linux distros actively encourage tweaking while Apple actively discourages and tries to get in the way.

alwillis 5y ago
Apple actively discourages and tries to get in the way This is false. Apple doesn’t actively discourage anything. Apple put all of options in the operating system for a reason and ships with a Terminal. The GUI allows regular people to get shit done without requiring them to be experts. Meanwhile, developers, hackers, tinkerers, can tweak to their heart’s content on the things that matter to them while getting the benefits of the Apple ecosystem. It’s never been an either/or. Editing a config file on Linux isn’t inherently “better” than doing the same on macOS.
- vincent-manis 5y ago
  I switched to macOS last year. My software inventory is overwhelmingly free software, and I currently have Emacs, TeX, Audacity, Inkscape, the Gimp, and a dozen or so Scheme and Lisp systems all running just fine [1]. In fact, I have a pretty good reproduction of the Ubuntu system I was running before. I have no complaints. As for tweaking, the two major tweaks I depend upon are remapping Caps Lock as Compose (Karabiner lets me do that, along with some stuff I found that lets me use an X11 style XCompose file), and turning off GateKeeper completely (that's one thing I would never tell a naïve user how to do, or even that it is possible). No claims that macOS is great for everybody, but I'm an experienced Unix user (my first Unix system was V7 on a PDP-11/45), and it works great for me. [1] The one hack I needed was that you need a workaround to install MIT Scheme on Apple Silicon.
  - awilfox 5y ago
    I wonder if that has any influence on it. My first Unix system was Solaris in the 90s, and I never felt the need to tweak it endlessly. Perhaps those who started on Linux and grew accustomed to tweaking everything from the outset find some enjoyment in it that I just don't. Anyone out there need a research paper on human behaviour related to preference of OS based on formative computing experiences? I'd be fascinated. :)

yakak 5y ago

I tried to use OsX for a few years since I thought it might help with resume soft skills, etc. But nothing is worth the frustration of Apple and their damn semi-GEO-locked mess of a cloud. Every Linux just works, even with obscure keyboard layouts, and installs security updates or necessities without ever dragging you into some store login drama. It would be interesting if people really finished a proper Darwin setup that could provide a good POSIX without service dependencies on Apple. But at that point, there are the existing BSDs.

smoldesu 5y ago

If I have to spend my time tweaking an operating system to my liking, it's going to be the one that's cheaper and has less lock-in.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

zibzab 5y ago

> but you made it yours by tweaking it to your liking. Serious question: why do you assume that? My "tweaking" of a new Ubuntu machine is normally limited to changing the background. I am busy getting work done and don't really want or need to tweak things.

alphabettsy 5y ago
Default keyboard shortcuts were one for me. Cut, Copy and Paste in Terminal for example.

spacexsucks 5y ago

Patently a lie. I have been struggling to make mac os mine for last 6 years with 40hrs/wk on it. Compared to my personal linux where I barely spend 10-12 per week. Just cant. On top SIP filesystem integrity protections just get in the way. Mac gets int way when programming, video editing, data management, power system.

sph 5y ago
macOS is a great system to watch videos, collect photos, take notes and do casual and very common multimedia tasks. It is excellent and unrivalled at that. But for engineering and power users it becomes more restrictive the more your mastery and requirements increase. Linux is pretty crap at multimedia. But for computing, tinkering and pushing your hardware to its full capacity it is absolutely the best. Windows is average, and that's not to disparage it, au contraire. It's decent at multimedia, not as much as macOS and decent at tinkering, but not as much as Linux.
- awilfox 5y ago
  "Casual" is relative: digiKam choked on my 55K photo library where Lightroom Classic works fine. Adobe XD's only libre competitor that I knew of was Pencil, which died three years ago after Mozilla killed off XUL and they tried to convert to Node/Electron. And don't even get me started on the libre alternatives to InDesign. (Three years and counting since the last stable Scribus, despite nine beta releases.) I wanted so badly to do production work on Linux. I really, really did. Engineering… depends on your definition. My preferred dev environments, CLion and Qt Creator, work fine on Mac as well. I'll agree that CAD has suffered since Autodesk went insane and FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, and the like work much better on Linux. On the science end, I find OsiriX Lite to be a much better experience than Kradview, and that's assuming you build all the KDE 4 libraries to even make Kradview work at all.